I had a quick first hand experience with the Philos prototype about a year ago, at the local distributor's lab. They were part of a worldwide testing/feedback group. I was told back then the grinder is to come in 2 months, however it hasn't until now. I have to be honest what I saw back then was a little clunky and didn't leave me with much confidence it could be a 'winner' in this space. Even the dosing cup was non standard under 50mm diameter. The rubber lid on the top didn't even fit the bean chute and was falling out.
It is full metal construction, mostly steel and some aluminium. It looks like a small ZM or even Zerno and similar grinders released recently, mostly from China based makers. Variable speed but no displays, digital controls etc. Which could also be a plus.
Burrs were 64mm flat, positioned vertically at the front and relatively easily accessible. There was no pre-breaker etc to note. Very rudimentary and basic but it worked, so let's hope they managed to polish up on usability and UX, overall.

Fingers crossed this becomes another Mazzer hit and fits the market cost-wise.

malling wrote:Ek43 and newer Mythos are In similar price range and these are everywhere, I don't really think it's the overall explanation for it limited success.

Fair. The mythos is timer based though. I see the EK used in cafes for drip, normally not for espresso. Where as I see mythos being used for espresso.

Given that the ek is single dose, the question is, why would a cafe opt to use the ek for drip, over the ZM? I'm not sure the cafes care as much about burr geometry. Maybe some, but I'd wager not most. So what I think the home user would see as a pro; is perhaps not a pro for the cafe? If I had to guess, Id chalk it up to first mover advantage. I can't square that circle.

With the accuracy the ZM offers, a cafe could offer a variety of different drip coffees. Dial them all in, and record the settings for each. Then change the settings on the ZM prior to switching beans. Maybe I'm missing something?

malling wrote: I think burr option is indeed part of the explanation, personally I don't like the screen and being so overly reliant on it. I just didn't find it pleasing at all to work with. Most other aspects of the grinder are nice overall. But I generally do not like Mazzer electronic implementations, although these gotten noticeably better then the E model of the past.. But they are not the only one where usability on electronic are a bit if a faff.

I haven't tried the screen on any of the new Mazzer E line. So I'll defer to you on that. I do agree that the implementation of the current generation is finally respectable. It took a concerning amount of time to get that product to market. Better late than missing the mark entirely. I don't think it helped consumer confidence along the way though.

buckersss wrote:Fair. The mythos is timer based though. I see the EK used in cafes for drip, normally not for espresso. Where as I see mythos being used for espresso.

Old one is, new version 2 can be had with both RPM and GBW.

The ZM is also mainly used for drip the places I seen it though and I probably seen EK used for espresso more then I seen this at all.

Given that the ek is single dose, the question is, why would a cafe opt to use the ek for drip, over the ZM?

In cup quality, easy to switch between the different grind for different brews, amazing large cupping grinder. It's just very well suited for that.

I'm not sure the cafes care as much about burr geometry. Maybe some, but I'd wager not most. So what I think the home user would see as a pro; is perhaps not a pro for the cafe? If I had to guess, Id chalk it up to first mover advantage. I can't square that circle.

It's about consistency and output but there definitely also consideration about the in the cup In those specialist places, in the broad market not so much.

With the accuracy the ZM offers, a cafe could offer a variety of different drip coffees. Dial them all in, and record the settings for each. Then change the settings on the ZM prior to switching beans. Maybe I'm missing something?

Yes it can record 20 grind settings that can then be set on one of the 4 programmable buttons. The problem is you constantly need to tweak those if you notice a change rather then just move the analog dial doing the shift. So while it sounds nice in theory, the problem is as always with the nature of coffee, so it is actually less a gain then you would normally think. Also really only work places where they at any given day only use 4 recipes and where there is a very strict control over how you barista brew, the moment you allow some individual freedom and let them be the judge such system doesn't really work.

It's an interesting concept, but it's unlikely ever going to be widespread simply because of the need to tweak the grinder doing the day.

I haven't tried the screen on any of the new Mazzer E line. So I'll defer to you on that. I do agree that the implementation of the current generation is finally respectable. It took a concerning amount of time to get that product to market. Better late than missing the mark entirely. I don't think it helped consumer confidence along the way though.

The new are better then the original, but I still find it odd to follow the same design fundamental of a doser grinder, most other manufacturers long moved away from that. It's also still my least favourite dial system excluding the ZM, but even on ZM moving the adjustment on its own is less enjoyable and ergonomically not ideal, but I do think you find worse out there from other manufacturers.

I personally don't like the screen on them

The new product is another grinder with a funnel, same old school adjustment mechanism. Look to be the new commercial conical grinder, has a polished upper part that's usually indicative for that.

This was mentioned earlier, it's a Kony S on the poster. What's a new school adjustment mechanism?

Edit: Looks like I was right, it's a Kony Sg. So a gravimetric Kony S.

The one they use on ZM and Kold are just one example


Yes Kony Sg, I suspect we will eventually see that on Robur and ZM as well

Oh alright, I thought you meant something even newer. Would you say you find the grind adjustment knob on the side better than what the rest of the lineup uses now?

It's a personal preference, but yes I prefer it over the mazzer collar, that said both have pros and cons.


The problem with the knob and this isn't specific for just mazzer but really a general issue, is that while it's great for small adjustment changes and generally more accurate, it's a pita for large grind adjustments, sometimes to such a degree it cannot really do it, also zeroing is generally no fun, if possible at all.

Collar can sometimes be too stiff, looses setting ones you dissemble (that Mazzer finally introduced a solution on), can sometimes require two hand operations, it is not always super accurate and on many the view on the dial numbers aren't spectacular. Then you have the concern of cross threading and grinds that can find its way into the threads, on many zeroing isn't really an option so you got odd numbers as zero point, again I'm glad they improved on that at mazzer..

My preferred is the type seen on Zerno, designed right it's visible, quick for large grind settings, reliable, easy to zero, doesn't loose grind settings when you clean burrs, easy to make fast and easy burr access, looking at their video it look it might be what we find on the SD version.. it's not without its own set of issues but overall I find it to be the one with least amount of compromises.