I am using my XL with the SD hopper.

First let me say my SD hopper has a good fit, the bellows works, no coffee leaking inside the grinder and the grinder runs pretty quiet. No clogging issues.

With the bellows I get the missing ~0.7 gram out but do not like the proces. Without the bellows it works better for ingle dosing in my opinion. Output is input minus ~0.1 grams so perfect. Exchange is with ~0.7 gram less than 5% of the dose. Negligible as far as I am concerned.

I like the possibility to dump ~50 grams of beans in the SD hopper and use the timer. Time based grinder is pretty accurate (~0.2 grams) and convenient when you have to serve visitors.

I believe the XL and SD are almost identical apart from the tilt. Strange that there are such differences.

Triumphrider wrote:It's not a matter of defense, but rather the fact that most owners of a new product would like to help prospective owners understand what their experience has been, especially if it's contrary to some published reviews. It would be helpful, right? "Real world" experience? Not just someone laying eyes on a product on a shelf. Or having an opinion just because they own a a product in the same "niche".

You do know you can try them out? So it's a little more then just laying your eye on it on a shelf. It really doesn't take many shot to valuate the quality of bellows or a grinder as a whole, especially if you been in this hobby for more then a decade. This is after all not that much different then any other mignon, we are after all speaking of very minor differences. It's a grinder not some sophisticated machinery.

Agree to disagree. I could tell within a few shots of OWNING the SD that it was going to be a great grinder. But then, I went in without any bias. That helps.

bas wrote: With the bellows I get the missing ~0.7 gram out but do not like the proces. Without the bellows it works better for ingle dosing in my opinion. Output is input minus ~0.1 grams so perfect. Exchange is with ~0.7 gram less than 5% of the dose. Negligible as far as I am concerned.

At first I thought with the bellows you get 0.7 gram of retention, and w/o 0.1, but I think I get what you mean

Are you implying that both Signle Dose and XL are equal in terms of single dosing? I mean for me having to clog the chamber with 1-2g of stale coffee to achieve low retention is kinda bs (which is the case for both grinders as I have seen in the reviews), because that makes my crap Graef CM800 for 150USD a SD grinder too, also long before "single dosing" became a thing Once it's cloged with stale cofee I get +/- .2g variation from the input too.

So don't you mind having a chamber cloged with a stale cofee mixing all the time with your fresh grind? That's not what I imagined when I heard about single dosing for the first time, but maybe I am naive... But if this is what single dosing is about, I feel it's just a marketing garbage.

Isn't every grinder a SD once you reach grinding chamber peak retention then? Or am I being insane?

Isn't every grinder a SD once you reach grinding chamber peak retention then? Or am I being insane?

Most grinders have much more retention and exchange than the XL!

I appreciate two things:

1. Input = output without bellows: for me <0.3 gram is acceptable and 0.1 is very good.
2 Low exchange: for me an exchange <1 gram is acceptable and <0.5 is very good.

Using the bellows you empty the grind path everytime. But you have to like the routine and the bellows has to be efficient. I do not like using the bellows and I think the bellows is not so efficient because of leaks and the antistatic screen. The Giota/DF64 works the same but the blower is more efficient. Especially since the update of the antistatic flap. I used the Giota without bellows as well and accepted the exchange. Using the SD or XL without antistatic screen reduces exchange, increase efficiency at the expense of static. For me no option.

Using the XL without the bellows gives a predictable output. The proces is more enjoyable and the exchange is small enough to not be a concern when using the same coffee. At least in my opinion. If you switch coffee everyday this might be an issue. I ike the XL with SD hopper as it is an acceptable SD ginder that can be used in timer mode as well.

My Niche performs great as a SD grinder. The best SD grinder in the sub 1000 range. Retention ~0.1 grams and exchange ~0.3 grams. No clogging. Acceptable static. But tastewise I prefer the XL.

My understanding is that the XL outfitted as an SD and the new Mignon SD Grinder are pretty much the same grinder...
I had an XL that I used exclusively as an SD. I ran 6+ lbs of medium roast through grinding only for espresso. When I cleaned it, I found it retained just under 2g of fines.


Contrast that to my EG-1, which I'm embarrassed to say that I ran 20+ lbs before cleaning it and it only had .1g retention.

mateu wrote:At first I thought with the bellows you get 0.7 gram of retention, and w/o 0.1, but I think I get what you mean

Are you implying that both Signle Dose and XL are equal in terms of single dosing? I mean for me having to clog the chamber with 1-2g of stale coffee to achieve low retention is kinda bs (which is the case for both grinders as I have seen in the reviews), because that makes my crap Graef CM800 for 150USD a SD grinder too, also long before "single dosing" became a thing Once it's cloged with stale cofee I get +/- .2g variation from the input too.

So don't you mind having a chamber cloged with a stale cofee mixing all the time with your fresh grind? That's not what I imagined when I heard about single dosing for the first time, but maybe I am naive... But if this is what single dosing is about, I feel it's just a marketing garbage.

Isn't every grinder a SD once you reach grinding chamber peak retention then? Or am I being insane?

That's a valid point. It comes down to how much exchange you are okay with, like bas wrote above.

But it's important to note the difference between:

1. Retention that goes to fill the nooks and crannies and get "caked in". These usually don't come out unless you open and clean the burrs, chamber and maybe the chute. This retention happens mostly during the initial few grind sessions but keeps on building to a certain degree slowly over long time because it can take a while before the "cake" becomes stable.

2. Retention that come out if you puff out using the bellows

3. Whatever left behind after puffing

People use different definitions of retention (#1 vs #2 vs #3) all the time, knowingly or unknowingly. Discussions often don't go very far because of this.

It's also worth pointing out the first type of retention (2g?) is not unique to Mignons. Niche Zero and Monolith also have non-negligible initial retention as shown below.

Monolith Flat:


NZ:

titan wrote:There's this other video that shows no matter how hard you pump the bellows, there's still some significant retention left:
video

I got headache just watching him messing with the scale left and right non-stop confusingly.

Also, shouldn't we take alternative brewing videos as basically commercials?

What makes you say that? Do you think the other reviews aren't? If so, why?
I'm talking Rowsell, Sprometheus, Hedrick, Hoffmann, etc on YT and other influencer types on forums. Just not for Eureka but also for Niche, DF, Option O, Monolith, Weber, Fellow, Decent, on and on.

I said this before, I happen to think the enthusiast grinder segment is full of BS and hype.

Hey friends!

Kyle Rowsell here. Stumbled upon this thread and thought I'd say hi but also chirp in the conversation.

As with many of you I was very excited for this grinder. And truly hoped it would be my new DD. But my personal experience has been okay. The coffee is great but my experiences - not so much. I've actually been pretty bummed about it - and that I had to even give such a poor review. It's not a fun time having to be Debbie downer but I'm also committed to sharing the truth in my experiences so that you can make the right choices and ultimately - brew better coffee at home. But I'd love to address some things...

I've seen some debate on the bellows and if people are pressing hard enough/ forcing enough air to pump out retention. I wish this was the case. For three weeks I would clean off the ace and try different methods of pressing. The issue kept coming back. Maybe I had a dud? But then a few started reaching out asking if they also had duds also because they were experiencing the same. They were hopeful I wasn't experiencing these Same things.

As I also mentioned in my review eventually I removed it all together. Then went to a hybrid model where it was slightly bent. The bent ace seemed to work best for me - but I'm willing to sacrifice messy counters for low retention. But still - not ideal.

Now I've had a DF 64 for a week since recording that video and I can say the bellows works much better on it. While I haven't modded the clump crusher yet on the DF, I've checked the chamber daily as I've done in the past with the ORO and it is doing a much better job at moving grounds out of the chamber. I think an aftermarket bellows may be a better solution for the ORO. Something like many have done for the specialita. But - I don't think this should be asked from customers when claiming its low retention.

Anyways without repeating too much of what I've stated in my video - I'm hopeful that eureka can turn this around. They have reached out to have a phone call with me to discuss my concerns with their engineers. They seemed very concerned about their future sales... and maybe they should be. Maybe they'll listen to the community? But... If you have anything you'd like me to share please let me know! Would love to hear more from the community in this.

In the meantime I will be comparing the oro to DF and other single dosing grinders in a showdown. Please let me know what you'd like to see there too. I feel this will be valuable to many. Should I separate flats and conicals? Mix them with detailed explanations? Let me know.

Stay well.

I bet future iterations of this grinder will be a real winner. I had a pre-order on one of these very recently and walked away from it based on everything I'm reading about it currently.

I'm new to the espresso world, but there seems to be a lot of problems going on with quite a few different Eureka models out on the market currently. Just doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. It made me reconsider a couple different Eureka models I was looking at. What do they do with these things, try to re-invent the wheel every time or something? Seems very bizarre that there would be this many problems with something as simple as a coffee grinder. Especially from a company that has been making them as long as Eureka has.

I have a Eureka Brew Pro dedicated for drip coffee. Knock on wood. So far so good. So quiet, and it really does a great job.