Monolith Pre-orders 8/10 - Who's getting one? - Page 2

#11: Post by **mivanitsky** » July 30th, 2018, 7:48 pm

No. This is not something Denis plans to offer. He prefers to produce new grinders for people, rather than retrofit older ones. It's not like the older ones perform poorly!

He could reuse your burrs to make a new one, though. Used Monoliths are not exactly difficult to sell.

#12: Post by **chipman** » July 30th, 2018, 8:31 pm

All this talk about improving retention. I thought everyone was reporting here that there is zero retention in both the conical and flat? I was starting to think I made the wrong choice when I bought my EG-1 (which I love) because when I open up the chamber there is always a bit of residue on the wipers.

#13: Post by **mivanitsky** » July 30th, 2018, 9:42 pm

There is no meaningful retention in any of them, but pats and puffs are needed to clear all the grinders, to a lesser extent with the new ones. The alignment improvement is measurably real, albeit small, but as it was so good before, there will be no significant difference in the cup. Denis works to improve the grinders because he can, not because he needs to. If for some reason you want the new one, sell the old one, but there is no reason anyone should feel a need to upgrade, unless they want a different color, or MAX v Flat, or shorter Conical.

#14: Post by **BaristaBob** » July 30th, 2018, 10:52 pm

mivanitsky wrote:
Also, I have been using a beta version of the Conical with the new locking mechanism. Salient features are: smaller burr chamber for less retention, shorty style grinder, lockless adjustment with improved and ultraprecise alignment. The one I have does not have the final backplate (does not reach top of top plate), and some of the visible threads may go away in the final version, as the funnel does not need to be threaded that high.

Denis and I both like working with this grinder better than the old version. Probably no real difference in the cup at all.

Mike,
Thanks for the "sneak peek" on the new MonoCon. I'm one of the fortunate few that spilled over to this production run during April madness. I say fortunate since you (and via email direct from Denis this morning) explained the latest, greatest design changes to the grinder. Can't wait to experience this grinder for myself. One question...did you say it's even shorter than the last production run model (15.2")?

#15: Post by **mivanitsky** » July 30th, 2018, 10:55 pm

I think it is exactly the same height, but to be honest, I have never measured it. It is at work, so I can't do it now.

#16: Post by **YseanY** » July 31st, 2018, 1:12 am

mivanitsky wrote:No. This is not something Denis plans to offer. He prefers to produce new grinders for people, rather than retrofit older ones. It's not like the older ones perform poorly!

He could reuse your burrs to make a new one, though. Used Monoliths are not exactly difficult to sell.

Thanks for the info! The burrs are only a small fraction of the cost but I should probably save up for a second grinder, the Max, instead of selling and rebuying something that I probably won't notice any difference in the cup. Oddly, I prefer the look of the taller conical, it feels more balanced with the size of the bottom mount/stand.

#17: Post by **Peppersass** » July 31st, 2018, 2:36 pm

mivanitsky wrote:No. This is not something Denis plans to offer. He prefers to produce new grinders for people, rather than retrofit older ones. It's not like the older ones perform poorly!

I haven't spoken to Denis about this, but I'm not sure it accurately expresses his policy.

Sometimes Denis does make retrofit parts available if they'll work with an older model and can be installed relatively easily by the owner. Sometimes that's the case and sometimes it isn't. I've gotten a few retrofit items for my early Flat. The SSP burrs Denis offers are certainly a backward-compatible retrofit. Another example is the safety cap. Denis told me it would require changing out the upper plate/burr carrier, which is easy, and he was willing to sell one to me (I decided against it because the new top plate wasn't cheap and I have no small kids in the house.)

In contrast, it's not clear if the new locking mechanism would involve just swapping the top plate and funnel, or whether the lower burr chamber (and maybe other major parts) would have to be replaced as well. I'm pretty sure replacing the lower burr carrier would require a trip back to the factory, and I suspect Denis is not interested in providing that service -- most likely because it would sap resources from making new grinders.

I think it might be more correct to say that when Denis designs an enhancement he doesn't prioritize backward compatibility. Sometimes an enhancement may happen to be backward compatible, but other times it could require compromises affecting the new model or a lot of engineering/cost to make it happen. Also, his production planning may not include keeping a supply of extra parts available for retrofitting.

#18: Post by **mivanitsky** » July 31st, 2018, 4:02 pm

I have discussed this with Denis.

It requires replacing lower and upper burr chambers, both burr carriers, and funnel. Basically everything above the drive and motor needs to be replaced. Absolutely it can be done, but it is about 2/3 of the machine/finishing work that needs to be done to make a Monolith. If it were ever to happen, it would be on an individual basis, and not cheap.

Look at the Flat MAX thread to see the internals of the new locking mechanism. I'll eventually post pix of the Conical inside, but the concept is the same.

#19: Post by **LBIespresso** » July 31st, 2018, 5:24 pm

I have a question about the burrs, specifically in the flat.

Are the standard TiN coated burrs SSP and assuming both are SSP, what advantage does the Red Speed coating have over TiN? OK, that's 2 questions

#20: Post by **RyanP** » July 31st, 2018, 5:48 pm

I'm waiting on the max. When speaking to Denis he expressed to me that his experience in using both the max and the flat w/ ssp was that the difference in pulling shots with light roasts was not so subtle.