Monolith Flat vs Conical [August 2017 version] - Page 4

#31: Post by **samuellaw178** » August 24th, 2017, 7:13 am

I have no explanation for that, unless there's some mechanical issue (like worn bearing, misalignment, QC issue etc)...I had tried using the hopper on the Robur a few times, only to get annoyed by the retention.

In the pull, there was almost no difference provided I WDT. But with hopper there's less WDT needed.

Regardless, a Monolith (either flat or conical) will help with your issue.

Big burrs+low retention+consistent+compact+WDT-is-optional

#32: Post by **mbabst** » August 24th, 2017, 7:14 am

I already have a HG One, should I keep it and get a flat or should I get a conical? Did anyone have a HG One before getting a Monolith? Do u guys think a Monolith conical will be a big improvement over a HG One? If not a flat plus keeping my HG One might be better. So its either a Monolith flat+HG One or only a Monolith conical.

I drink all kind of roasts, from light to dark.

#33: Post by **mitch236** » August 24th, 2017, 8:49 am

NelisB wrote:I only use 15-16 grs in a VST 14grs basket. The difference on my Lambro is amazing, with or without a filled hopper. With single dosing I have to grind much finer and still the extraction is difficult, also with serious WDT.

My usual ratio is 1:2.

I found the Robur very difficult to single dose without the hopper as well. I had to set the collar much finer to get the same flow which tells me something has changed in the way the beans are being fed into the burrs. I bought a VST refractometer and was not surprised to find that every shot I made was underextracted. I worked with Vince (VST) extensively and in the end, I gave up and went back to keeping a half full hopper and wasting massive amounts of beans to get acceptable extractions.

My EG-1 and I'm sure both Monoliths can achieve great results without a hopper because they are purpose built. I still believe the flat burrs offer an advantage over conicals for single dosing because of better use of centrifugal forces on the bean.

#34: Post by **NelisB** » August 24th, 2017, 8:59 am

Sadly I have no EG-1 or KM-flat money at the moment. And also the batch Denis is producing for november is already sold out. So for now I am waisting a lot of beans. Maybe next batch I'll order a Conical. I was also considering a EK43, but not everyone seems enthusiastic about them.

#35: Post by **TomC** » August 24th, 2017, 9:22 am

mitch236 wrote:I found the Robur very difficult to single dose without the hopper as well. I had to set the collar much finer to get the same flow which tells me something has changed in the way the beans are being fed into the burrs. I bought a VST refractometer and was not surprised to find that every shot I made was underextracted.

Changing the grind finer has always been necessary when single dosing. Yet the particle size distribution is remarkably similar when single dosing vs hopper fed, when controlling for similar shot parameters. I'd be interested to see some data that shows that hopper fed shots yield higher extractions over single dosing when the shot parameters are held equal.

mitch236 wrote:
My EG-1 and I'm sure both Monoliths can achieve great results without a hopper because they are purpose built. I still believe the flat burrs offer an advantage over conicals for single dosing because of better use of centrifugal forces on the bean.

Can you describe the advantage? I notice such minimal retention with my MonoCon or HG One (both conicals) that I don't bother measuring post grinding anymore. My K30's, Anfim Super Caimano and Mazzer Major, etc are all higher rpm flat burrs and the only retention issues they have are inherent in the design of the grinding chamber, not how well or poorly the centrifugal forces affect the bean.

#36: Post by **mivanitsky** » August 24th, 2017, 9:23 am

mbabst wrote:I already have a HG One, should I keep it and get a flat or should I get a conical? Did anyone have a HG One before getting a Monolith? Do u guys think a Monolith conical will be a big improvement over a HG One? If not a flat plus keeping my HG One might be better. So its either a Monolith flat+HG One or only a Monolith conical.

I drink all kind of roasts, from light to dark.

Buy both and keep HG1 for power failures and camping trips. If your HG1 is well aligned, flavor profile will be very like Monolith Conical. You always need to WDT with HG1 of course. Having the HG1, I strongly recommend the Flat as your first and perhaps only Monolith purchase.

#37: Post by **mitch236** » August 24th, 2017, 10:48 am

TomC wrote:Changing the grind finer has always been necessary when single dosing. Yet the particle size distribution is remarkably similar when single dosing vs hopper fed, when controlling for similar shot parameters. I'd be interested to see some data that shows that hopper fed shots yield higher extractions over single dosing when the shot parameters are held equal.

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Can you describe the advantage? I notice such minimal retention with my MonoCon or HG One (both conicals) that I don't bother measuring post grinding anymore. My K30's, Anfim Super Caimano and Mazzer Major, etc are all higher rpm flat burrs and the only retention issues they have are inherent in the design of the grinding chamber, not how well or poorly the centrifugal forces affect the bean.

Thanks Tom, I stand corrected. Perhaps the burrs on my Robur were misaligned? But then, when I used the hopper, my shots improved. Maybe my single dosing technique was lacking? Nonetheless, I couldn't be happier with the EG-1 because it has brought consistency to my routine like I've never had before. But I admit, after seeing this study, I'll stop theorizing that single dosing causes a larger particle size distribution!

September 20th, 2017, 2:31 pm

I am very curious to hear a comparison of Monolith Flat or Conical vs Ek43, for pourover. I currently have a Vario with steel burrs, and it doesn't really come close to the EK43 in the cup. How much of an upgrade would Monolith Flat be? I don't want to have an EK-43 due to size/weight/cleaning etc.

September 21st, 2017, 1:41 am

I have a Vario with steel burrs and my Flat runs rings around it for pourover. But I can't comment on how the Flat compares with and EK43 because I don't have one and have never tried a cup ground with one!

That said, not sure it make sense to get the Flat just for pourover. It's really designed for espresso.

#40: Post by **Fydees** » September 21st, 2017, 2:23 am

namelessone wrote:I am very curious to hear a comparison of Monolith Flat or Conical vs Ek43, for pourover. I currently have a Vario with steel burrs, and it doesn't really come close to the EK43 in the cup. How much of an upgrade would Monolith Flat be? I don't want to have an EK-43 due to size/weight/cleaning etc.

I recently asked about this in another thread (I have a flat coming in November

), and I don't think anyone has done any serious tests on the subject. Unfortunately, it takes dedicated people (with a lot of money) who are not only interested in espresso to create these kinds of comparisons. I do wish people on here were more interested in pour over overall, because even after dedicating the last 4 months to learn how to make great espresso, I still really love pour over and would love more discussion and serious testing around it.