Hello,
I put my $500 down to get one of the next Monolith Flats due to be built around April. I'm really excited to get it. Currently I'm have two Mazzer Mini Es, one for decaf and one for regular. I know there are better hopper fed grinders out there, for at home I've been happy with the combination of size and function of the Mini Es. How do you think the adjustment will be going from a hopper grinder to single dosing? I've seen several of the videos of people's workflow using the Monolith, to be honest, some of it looks kind of ridiculous when you have scales, spray bottles, brushes, air blowers, stirring jars, funnels, wdt tool, etc. all to make one shot of espresso. I'm not knocking it, like I said I'm going to get one, it's just if I had some people over who are not into coffee the way I am, I can see how it would look ridiculous to them and take me a long time to make several drinks. What are some smooth and quick workflows that Monolith users are doing? Is pre-weighing in containers like Lyn-Webber makes along with a spray of water enough? Obviously I need to actually try the grinder before I make any judgements, but I'm thinking I'll probably still keep my Mazzers for when I have company over and use the Monolith for when I want to optimize my own shots. I'm curious what others think.

I'm only on my third day with my flat but I have nothing but good things to say about it.
For the exception of RDT I would say a lot of people posting workflows with the Monolith honestly haven't changed to a more complicated setup because of the grinder, typically they are already doing WDT or other consistency improvers before they get the Monolith. With that being said, the static buildup in the first handful of pounds of coffee is pretty extreme in my case, I would definitely recommend putting in the effort to RDT until the burrs get broken in.

I also feel that the monolith has simplified my workflow in a lot of ways, no weird knocking, trying to get some extra retention out, as well as less messiness and cleanup when I am done brewing for the day. It's hard to explain but due to the simplicity and thoughtfulness of the flat design my morning ritual feels a lot more straightforward and easy to dial in so I can focus on enjoying espresso.

Peppersass wrote:Yes, the retention is tiny, but it's not zero. I think most people are forgetting to add the weight of the water used for RDT.

I think I saw you mention this once before, and I was thinking about it, but never put fingers to keyboard. Have you done any actual measurements related to the RDT weight in and out?

My instinct says if you spray with, say, 0.1g of water, only a fraction of that will come out in the grinds. I would expect the other part to be either instantly evaporated during the grind process, or to exit the process as tiny water droplets not "stuck" to the grinds.

So I'm skeptical that we would expect to see the entire weight of the water added to the weight of the grounds.

That said, I have no measurements myself, so I'm just speculating!

It's terribly hard to measure this considering you aren't entirely sure if the retention is coffee or water, or what ratio of each. With that being said one spray from the included bottle adds .1g. I've noticed about .1g of retention consistently (If I include that .1g of water in the measurement). With that being said my burrs aren't entirely broken in yet so YMMV.

gr2020 wrote:I think I saw you mention this once before, and I was thinking about it, but never put fingers to keyboard. Have you done any actual measurements related to the RDT weight in and out?

My instinct says if you spray with, say, 0.1g of water, only a fraction of that will come out in the grinds. I would expect the other part to be either instantly evaporated during the grind process, or to exit the process as tiny water droplets not "stuck" to the grinds.

So I'm skeptical that we would expect to see the entire weight of the water added to the weight of the grounds.

That said, I have no measurements myself, so I'm just speculating!

I was having similar thoughts. I did indeed see about .1g worth of increase after spraying with water (something I never looked at previously). But some of that water is clinging to the vessel you weighed in, some is sticking inside the funnel, some is evaporating, etc. etc. I don't think you should have any expectation of getting it all back. Regardless though, I think we're all in agreement that retention is very small.

To cnworld on workflow and the merits of single dosing:

I would be a bit hesitant to recommend the monolith to someone who doesn't already like singledosing, since being the ultimate single dosing grinder is pretty much its raison d'être. Its a great grinder though, so provided you decide you're okay with single dosing I think you will be happy.

Single dosing is never going to be as quick and easy as electronic controlled hopper dosing once you're dialed in. You're basically trading convenience for flexibility. I like single dosing because changing coffees and adjusting grind can be done easily without needing to purge and waste coffee. Its a rare thing for me to make coffee for anyone other than myself and my wife, so I don't feel the need to be in a big hurry.

Weighing is the easiest way to get a consistent dose. You don't have to weigh the output with the monolith because retention is so low. Just assume you are getting out what you put in. If you are making multiple shots in succession you can weigh the dose for the next one while the current one is grinding. No one is making you RDT or WDT, but they help and don't take long. You can get by without it if you're in a hurry.

Keep in mind if you watch a video of someone's routine, usually they are going more slowly to illustrate their process rather than just doing it. It doesn't seem nearly as ridiculous in real life. Non coffee people are likely to think the amount of fuss we go to is funny, but such is life. You wouldn't go to a chef's house and criticize the tools or techniques they use in the kitchen, but "just making coffee" isn't taken quite as seriously yet.

Spoke to Denis about grinding while adjusting. He doesn't see any reason why it would hurt anything. He doesn't personally experience the need to do it, but he also mostly stays in the espresso range.

I wonder if the need to do this will lesson once burrs break in and humidity goes up. Its awful dry right now and I have new burrs, so I may be experiencing extra static cling. In the mean time though, I don't find it to be a big deal to just run the motor while going from brew back to espresso.

cnworld wrote:...I've seen several of the videos of people's workflow using the Monolith, to be honest, some of it looks kind of ridiculous when you have scales, spray bottles, brushes, air blowers, stirring jars, funnels, wdt tool, etc. all to make one shot of espresso. I'm not knocking it, like I said I'm going to get one, it's just if I had some people over who are not into coffee the way I am, I can see how it would look ridiculous to them and take me a long time to make several drinks. What are some smooth and quick workflows that Monolith users are doing? Is pre-weighing in containers like Lyn-Webber makes along with a spray of water enough? Obviously I need to actually try the grinder before I make any judgements, but I'm thinking I'll probably still keep my Mazzers for when I have company over and use the Monolith for when I want to optimize my own shots. I'm curious what others think.

My main reason for single-dosing is to be able to switch coffees quickly, without waste. I like variety and like to explore different coffee regions, varietals, processing methods, roast levels, etc.

Another problem with hopper feed for me is that with some grinders the grind profile can change depending on the weight of the column of beans above the burr chamber. This undermines consistency, making dialing in more difficult and sometimes requiring grind adjustment to get the same taste from shot to shot. Further, you have to purge some coffee when you change the grind setting, which makes dialing in more time consuming and wastes some coffee. You also have to purge stale coffee before your first shot and have to purge when you change beans. I think all this adds up to more work, not less, and certainly more hassle and waste.

Note that my thoughts on this apply to home use. High-volume cafes need the speed provided by hoppers, have enough throughput to avoid purging from one shot to the next, are in a better position to keep the hopper topped up, and generally keep the same coffee in the hopper from day to day. A little more time dialing in before opening isn't a big deal, and neither is the waste.

I pre-dose into small airtight containers about once a week. This eliminates weighing the beans while preparing shots. I give the beans a single spray of water, put the cover of the container back on loosely, shake to distribute the water, then dump into the Flat's funnel. After grinding, I lift the Flat's cover, push any crumbs or (rarely) unground beans/fragments into the burr chamber and turn the grinder back on. I tap the top of the funnel with my open palm to push some air through, which sometimes dislodges some grounds. Sometimes I remove the chute and tap any grounds stuck to it into the basket. Truly, though, it's so little that it's not necessary and I don't do it consistently. I no longer weigh the grounds because I'm confident that any retention is minimal and won't affect taste. I do a quick WDT, tamp and go. I don't think this takes much time at all, certainly far less time than it took me to single-dose and brush out my K10 WBC.

That said, it'll probably be quicker to use your Mazzer for company, especially if they want milk drinks. You can always use the Flat for those who want straight espresso.

I would like to emphasize how nice it is to have such a high quality grinder in such a small package. Here it sits a good bit shorter than the CT1 and just a touch taller than a la Pavoni euro. Also, it seems to me that the build and attention to detail is excellent.

Thanks Dick and Nathan for the feedback. It sounds like much less fuss then I thought. It makes me all the more excited to get my Monolith. I should add that I have tried single dosing in the past with a first generation HG-1 I bought around 4 years ago when it was all the rage. I was never impressed with that grinder and ended up selling it after a few months. In hindsight it was probably one of the ones that had misaligned burrs. I never liked the idea of mods on commercial grinders in order to single dose and I was never impressed with the Lyn-Webber advertising and Asian manufacturing, so I stayed with my Mazzer Minis. I am super impressed with what Dennis has done in producing the Monolith with such quality and in the USA to boot! I want to support what he's doing, so I'll give single dosing a try again. Fortunately, I have three separate espresso set ups, so I won't always have to single dose if I don't want to. When I get my Monolith I'll pair it with my 2014 Cremina that I just added a Naked Portafilter pressure gauge to. I have a 2014 Maximatic that I'll keep the Mazzers with and a 1987 Cremina paired with a matching 1986 Olympia Moca grinder for when I want to feel old school. I'm looking forward to all the experimenting I can do with both pressure profiling and single dosing.