Minimizing Waste and Static on Large Commercial Grinders - Page 8

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Dodger1

#71: Post by Dodger1 »

I'd give the WBC the nod in taste but the Conico has only ground slightly less than a pound of beans. So I'll have my wife pick up a couple of pounds of cheap beans this weekend and see what effect that has on the tasting profile.

Both grinders are built like a brick outhouse but the Conico reminds me of what a Soviet design bureau might have created in the 50's. Lots and lots of metal, function over form, large industrial grade motor (without a starter motor), no chrome, huge conical burrs, built to last with minimum service but as Jim S. observed, a very nice spring loaded, floating system. All of which reminds me of the famous Russian T34 tank of WWII.

On the other hand, the WBC is what the same design studio might have created to improve upon their original design.

Price equal - WBC rules the roost

Price I paid for the Conico - without a doubt the Conico

Current prices - that's a toughie, especially since I've only been using the Conico for ~ 5 days. However, for an additional ~ $150, I'd have to give my nod to the WBC but that could change after I use the Conico more.

FYI, I self diagnosed deep vein thrombosis on Sunday morning, which the hospital confirmed after a couple of tests. They kept me for almost 3 days but ended up sending me home, which is sop, with a supply of Lovenox 180mg 2x and Warfarin 10 mg 1x. If everything goes according to plan those drugs should prevent the formation of additional clots, while dissolving the 3 I currently have. They will have to closely monitor how thin my blood gets, which will require a blood draw/testing about every 3 days.

One of side effects of this disease is pain and not a one of the pain meds they gave me works worth a darn. So at the present time I find myself less interested in my new toy then I normally would be.

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michaelbenis (original poster)

#72: Post by michaelbenis (original poster) »

Lack of interest in new toy entirely understandable, Keith.

Good of you to post anything at all under the circumstances.

Best wishes with those clots...

Mike
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JohnB.
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#73: Post by JohnB. »

michaelbenis wrote:It would be very intersting to hear what if any differences you find in the cup - and also in build quality. My impression is that the Fiorenzatos are a more solid construction than the Compaks.
Mike

What do you find lacking in the Compak's build quality?
LMWDP 267

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michaelbenis (original poster)

#74: Post by michaelbenis (original poster) »

Well I think lacking would be too strong a word, since they more than do the job and there certainly don't appear to be any service life issues, but I personally find they feel a bit more lightweight and less bombproof than say the Mazzers. As someone with plenty of mechanical knowledge, how do you find your K10 stacks up against the Major?

Cheers

Mike
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JohnB.
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#75: Post by JohnB. »

I like my Major but the K10 is a much nicer grinder IMO. Even though it has a larger motor (750w vs 650w) it is much quieter then either my Major or SJ. No loud start up clunk like the Major has & just seems to run smoother then my Mazzers. The K10 produces a big, fluffy grind which I imagine is typical of the 68mm conicals & does a better job of bringing out the various flavors in a blend or S/O espresso then the Major. Grind adjustments are smooth & effortless whereas my Mazzers require (a little)more effort & feel somewhat notchy even with the threads lubed.

The WBC doser sweeps itself clean, is relatively quiet & has the feel of a precision instrument. In comparison the Mazzers dosers I've used are sloppy, clunky & noisy. Weight wise the K10 is 35lbs, SJ/31lbs & the Major/44lbs. This means the Major has a heavy casting & would be the better boat anchor but I don't feel that the K10 has any build quality issues just because it weighs less.

Since I keep seeing the same misleading/incorrect info posted about the K10's grind retention I just want to state once again that those numbers do not represent what I've found after sweeping out the burr chamber/chute & weighing the grounds on several different occasions. Sweep out & factor the 2.5g-3g left in the chute into your dose & you can get away with a 6g purge after an idle period. Do an easy mod to the plastic chute extension & you can easily sweep one of the sweeper sections along with the chute each time further reducing coffee waste.
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shadowfax

#76: Post by shadowfax »

JohnB. wrote:Since I keep seeing the same misleading/incorrect info posted about the K10's grind retention
Where are you seeing this?
Nicholas Lundgaard

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JohnB.
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#77: Post by JohnB. »

shadowfax wrote:Where are you seeing this?
Typically in your posts where you lump the K10 in with the Robur as below:
shadowfax wrote: I see no reason to assume it's any different from a Robur/K10WBC/M7K. It's probably got a big burr chamber and a level chute going to the doser that will hold a good bit of coffee, requiring you to purge at least a double shot of coffee (maybe 1.5 or 2) each session, sweep out the chute at the end of each session and mitigate that waste, or single-dose with it and sweep, which should virtually eliminate waste.
Have you ever swept out & weighed what is left behind in a K10? If you didn't sweep out the chute you would end up with enough for a good size single but not "at least a double shot of coffee (maybe 1.5 or 2) ". As I stated in my post the K10 produces light, fluffy grounds which might look like a lot in a chute or burr chamber but don't amount to much on a scale.
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Bluecold

#78: Post by Bluecold »

I've weighed what my chute can contain. 14 grams. I've gotten quite handy with my brush...
My chute however, is much, much larger than the K10 chute.

That is my chute. And it is deep too.
The K10 chute is much smaller as i see from pictures.

Also, that is _just the chute_ The burr chamber is empty. I grind per shot. Although whenever i grind for espresso, the chute doesn't completely fill up. Whenever i grind more for other coffee making methods, the chute fills up and can contain 14 grams.
These 14 grams are weighed on a scale that isn't very precise. I've got a new one coming from China that is supposed to get .01 gram accuracy. If the results are different on that scale, i'll update this post.
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"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."

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shadowfax

#79: Post by shadowfax »

JohnB. wrote:Have you ever swept out & weighed what is left behind in a K10? If you didn't sweep out the chute you would end up with enough for a good size single but not "at least a double shot of coffee (maybe 1.5 or 2) ". As I stated in my post the K10 produces light, fluffy grounds which might look like a lot in a chute or burr chamber but don't amount to much on a scale.
Fair enough; I've never claimed to have used a K10 (well, not enough to measure its actual retention) and I was going on assumptions. On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone do the tests we did with the Robur & Nino for the K10, and I'm unclear how you got your "good sized single" (I assume you mean 9-10 grams?). Could you describe how you quantify the K10's retention when used without sweeping the chute (what I was talking about in the quote)? Perhaps you could do a little photo essay and follow the methodology that's described in this thread, like several of us have done for the various Roburs, etc. in this thread. It'd be interesting and rather informative, a good way to dispel any confusion.
Nicholas Lundgaard

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JohnB.
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#80: Post by JohnB. »

I did pretty much what I've seen posted here & elsewhere. With approx 1/3-1/2lb of beans in the small Compak hopper I use I ran beans through on the setting for that blend until the stock chute filled completely & grounds were plopping into the doser. Closed the hopper trap door, removed the hopper, picked out 98% of the beans from the throat, carefully removed the upper burr assy setting it upside down on a paper towel, picked out the few beans that fell into the chamber from the throat, swept out the burr chamber & chute into a tared container, swept off all grounds from the upper burr carrier into the same container, weighed the container on my digital scale which I check regularly with calibration weights. I used the stock plastic chute extension as the molded step inside tends to cause the grinds to pack a little more densely then my modified chute. Since I included the grounds stuck to the burr carrier & vanes my weight would have been somewhat higher then what you would have to worry about each time you purge.

I have no problem with running through the procedure again & taking some photos. I've got some Dolce on hand which is slightly oily & should give some worst case numbers or at least as bad as I'm likely to see as I don't normally buy oily roasts.

Possibly useful trivia: I dose strictly by weight into a tared basket. I run the K10 through the old analog T-O-L timer I used for the Major but only use the on/off toggle switch function as its faster & easier to reach then the K10 switch. I dose into the basket until I reach my "eyeball" 13-14g range, shut off the grinder & check the weight. If I eyeballed correctly I sweep out the chute or chute/sweeper segment(if exposed), recheck the weight & correct if/as needed. I've done this on every shot with the K10 since I bought it in early January, 2-4 doubles a day, 7 days a week so I have a very accurate idea of what the K10 chute holds, stock or modified. Typically I see 2.5-2.75g retained in the modified chute & 3-3.25g in the stock chute. Last shot I prepared I swept out the chute & one of the 3 sweeper segments & came up with 4.3g total.
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