shadowfax wrote:So, that should save you some grinds in terms of the total that's backed up in your grind path. On the other hand, such a large chute won't purge as a FIFO (first in first out) queue... some of the fresh grinds will come out as you purge, and there will be some degree of mixing between the stale coffee and fresh coffee.

The Mazzer doserless screen design intentionally creates resistance for the exiting grounds, so I would expect them to have more retained grounds and mixing of new/old grounds in the chamber than the doser models without the screen that eject grounds with impunity. Even with aggressive sweeping of the Robur's chute, a good single's worth of coffee is wasted before a grind setting change is fully in effect.

You can basically clean the entire chute out, and the chamber, to within 1-2 grams I would estimate, but it is a huge PITA. Involves a lot of pulsing and angled sweeping, could very easily damage the static screen doing it as well. As Dan alluded to, even if its totally clean it will take some time for the new grind to settle down.

Best bet I believe is to grind a doubles worth first thing in the morning and use it as a seasoning shot for the grouphead and baskets that I am sure we all chemically cleaned the night before. Turn a blind eye to the waste and put it down to the price of doing business with a large grinder.

Enjoy, Chris

True. My doser-Robur hardly seems to suffer from the mixing at all if I swept out the chute each time, leaving only the 4-5g of stale/unadjusted coffee stuck in the vanes you can't access with a brush. If you leave the chute full it's quite bad, though the anti-static grid really exacerbates the problem as badly as possible.

You can mitigate that problem somewhat by clipping portions of the screen. IIRC people suggest clipping the top left horizontal piece of the grid. This can make the chute clear more consistently and reduce clumping a bit even over the minor clumping some of them seem to have.

gyro wrote:Best bet I believe is to grind a doubles worth first thing in the morning and use it as a seasoning shot for the grouphead and baskets that I am sure we all chemically cleaned the night before. Turn a blind eye to the waste and put it down to the price of doing business with a large grinder.

Or get a Nino...

Well for those of us who have only 2 sessions a day in private use, it means to have a double first I must throw away a double or 50% coffee bought / 50% coffee tossed in the bin

The big question is theoretically there is slightly less than a double dose's worth of stale grinds to clear out that are in the chamber and chute.

If I transform into a little grain and travel thru the passageway what would I see. I have a feeling there are grains that travel round and round either constantly mixing with newly ground in the chamber, and that there are grounds that push thru the passage of least resistance in the chute (like channeling).

Hmmmmmm I think I will shoot out a double and not contemplate all the possibilities.

There was a grinder I saw that had no hopper (I think I saw it here) and you just put your handful of weighed beans in and it passes thru without chambers and chutes. I know the macap m4d I have has a direct chute into the PF so you only have the chamber's worth of beans. Even the Nino like the Macap's has a chamber.

The question is if you want the big burr grind, there are compromises in perfection

As Nicholas has hinted, the Nino is pretty good at reducing any compromises to a minimum, being a relatively large conical with a an effective doserless system and particularly small burr chamber swept by six vanes, which keeps retention down..... I haven't heard of anyone from the group buy not being happy with it.

I have also heard word of a very big flat burr doserless Compak which could be interesting, but have not read any user reports....

Cheers

Mike

Anybody care to comment or speculate on the retention and/or amount of purge needed for a Fiorenzato Doge Conica?

I'll speculate. I see no reason to assume it's any different from a Robur/K10WBC/M7K. It's probably got a big burr chamber and a level chute going to the doser that will hold a good bit of coffee, requiring you to purge at least a double shot of coffee (maybe 1.5 or 2) each session, sweep out the chute at the end of each session and mitigate that waste, or single-dose with it and sweep, which should virtually eliminate waste.

My feeling that it's exceptionally ugly among a group of grinders that are not particularly "lookers" in general aside, I'll bet it's an awesome grinder and well worth the money if you can still get one on the 1st-line deal.

Since I made that post - I saw a post somewhere to the effect that conico has a good bit more retention in the grind chamber than the robur, and that you couldn't readily pull the burrs as with a Robur -

I'm going back out for a while and will see if I can find a link.

I'm hoping that some of the guys that just bought one on the closeout deal will share an analysis with us.

I received my Conico on the 16th and yes I was able to get the real deal from Jim. However, my testing was interrupted by the paramedics, who took me to the hospital for a very unintended 3 day stay.

Won't go into details about that but the top burr was as easy, if not easier, to remove then the one on my K10 WBC. I haven't measured the grind retention but access to the Conico's chute is blocked by the automatic grinding function control box, picture below.



So until Jim get backs from the show and offers advice as to which wires to jump etc., I'm going to leave well enough alone. However, once that box is removed, I should be able to sweep out the chute and eliminate most of the grinds; just like I do with my WBC.

As it stands I'll echo everything shadowfax said, with the exception of ugly. While it's true that the majority of the larger conical grinders won't win any beauty contests, they have the ability to produce some of the nicest shots your likely to experience and that in my book can be stunningly beautiful.

I've also included a side by side pic of my K10 WBC and Conico, for your viewing pleasure and factual comments

Sorry to hear about the 3-day episode and hope all is now sorted.

It would be very intersting to hear what if any differences you find in the cup - and also in build quality. My impression is that the Fiorenzatos are a more solid construction than the Compaks.

Cheers

Mike