pjones wrote:Add these two together and you have just shy of 30 grams. Ouch! I speculate that this experiment might not be very accurate, while the displacement of stale to fresh coffee might give dissimilar results with their more similar densities.

Seems pretty accurate. It would therefore suggest since you came to your conclusion based on rice purging, and I've come up with a similar figure for straight residual grounds, that it would at least be a fairly linear displacement of stale coffee.

Chris--I did the rice test on my grinder, both with my routine chute sweeps and without them. In short, you're right about how bad it is with a full chute. My test results suggest that it may be even worse than the Robur E, as the lack of the anti-static screen means that the chute never really fills up entirely, preferring to fill up mostly and then throw the coffee out primarily through the upper-right corner. The 'stopped up' sections of the chute seem to slowly mix with the high-velocity section, but again the operative word is slowly. With my ritual chute-sweeping, it's pretty decent, as the empty chute seems to free it to "throw" the full contents of each vane in the grinding chamber as it passes by the chute. The problem, though, is that the output is a lot more statically charged upon exit with the empty chute, so the entire doser gets peppered, and even the grinds in the bottom part cling to the sides of the vanes and the sides of the doser that aren't swept. This is no surprise (my Robur has been like this since I bought it, of course), but it becomes a serious source of mess when you're thinking of converting to doserless. From what I can see right now, the basic Robur design presents the would-be doserless converter (including Mazzer themselves with the E model) with a choice between extremely messy static from a fully purged chute, or a rather wasteful purgation of spent grinds, whatever the exact cause of that may be.

Anyway, I'll post more details and some photos from my test when I get a chance.

This really is a very interesting thread. Wonderful sharing of experience and information.

Many thanks.

I drink around 6-8 a day, most days, with my wife having her own arrangements (Illy preground and Moka pot) and only sometimes concocting for her, or friends or our son.

So as you can imagine I am trying to weigh up the cup differences with the potential waste issues that are being highlighted here.

I've read through the TGP several times, so have swotted up on the SJ vs. Robur. Most of the comparisons of the SJ to Major seem to concentrate on clumping and speed, rather than differences in the cup and there seems very little on Major vs. Robur cup differences, so its helpful to know that the general feeling is that it's somewhere between the SK and Robur but possibly much closer to the former than the latter... I'm thinking of getting a second grinder because I like drinking different beans through the day, which is why I'm asking.

Then of course there's the Elektra.....

I really don't think I could bring myself to chuck out a double or two every morning....

Cheers

Mike

Moderator note: posts relating to the Kony E's waste from Short Hopper Mod for Mazzer Kony have been merged to this topic. See the original thread for context.

misterdoggy wrote:Everything is clean clean clean.

You sure?



I'd be interested to hear you chime in about what level of coffee is held up behind the screen, and how you deal with that (just purging the waste in the morning, etc.).

Hey Nicholas,

When I meant clean clean clean, I was talking about the work area which was messy messy messy with the doser.

The question about how much retention in the shoot and burrs is a a good one. I don't think I can become so fanatical that I will have to only use the 18g beans going in the machine then clean it after every use.

I have not cracked it open yet to see, but I've read somewhere in a thread that the amount of grinds left in a conical is more than in the flat burrs. That there is a "buildup" that doesn't move along and only comes out with a cleaning but can't report first hand whether or not its true.

In 7 seconds the machine produces 18g approx and by running 1 1/2 seconds first I'm throwing away 4-5g of coffee in the chute. Is this enough ? Well maybe I ought to empty out the chute and weigh it, but I'll bet its close.

In short, not really. Its not only the 'compacted' grinds in the chute, but also the coffee in the chamber that will stale overnight. Have a read through the thread to see what we are talking about. Caked on coffee, to me at least, isn't much of a concern since its not going to come out the chute the next time either. I can't recall seeing Kony figures, but based on my experience with the Robur I would have thought more like a solid doubles worth of grinds as a 'purge' first thing in the morning would be more appropriate. Cheers, Chris

Thanks Chris

Very Interesting indeed

There is more place in the conical grinder for stale grinds to rest.

No matter what you do, there is always a certain amount of stale grinds attached to all kinds of areas ie: burr chamber, Burrs themselves, chute etc, and if you really want 1000% clean new coffee, you would have to clean everything after each shot (wouldn't be surprised if some do)

I will shoot out a double before each session then....

I purge 8-10 grams after the grinder sits more than 2 minutes, or when changing grind. Basically, I fill the double basket 1/2 full or a bit more, then dump the coffee. If I purge less than this, I can definitely taste the difference in the cup. I find that these big conical grinders amplify the nastiness of stale coffee as well as accentuating the positive.

-Mike

So if a 7 second timer produces about 18g I will set the single for purging to 3.5 seconds and 9g approx should do the trick.

Basically this means that we throw away almost 30 to 40% of the coffee we buy. ?