This thread is mainly to vent my frustration. I've been at this hobby for almost 10 years but for the first nine, had never tasted a truly great shot. Because of that, I had no frame of reference to know if my shots were any good. I had my Linea mated to a Mazzer Mini for 7+ years which in hindsight, hindered by ability to pull a good shot. Then Andy Schecter suggested a better grinder. I did my research (mainly reading the TGP thread) and bought a Robur E expecting to have my espresso immediately improve. It was better and to my uneducated senses, I thought it was very good. Then I travelled to Chicago and Jim was kind enough to take me on a tour of top cafes. Wow! That really was a game changer for me and marked the beginning of a journey that is still going but let me get back to my tale of woe.

Ever since my trip to Chicago, I've been trying to emulate those shots without any success. Then I bought a VST refractometer to add some science to my attempts. That showed there was indeed a problem. All of my shots were underextracted. After many tries, I decided I had an equipment issue and started investigating. First I thought my water was to blame but further testing revealed it was not the source of problem. Then I suspected the Linea but again, that was shown to be innocent. Finally, I was convinced to suspect my Robur. In the interim, I bought a K-10 knowing that if I decided to sell it, I could get almost what I paid. I had a hard time bonding with it in the 3 or 4 days I used it. Then the new burrs came in for the Robur.

What a difference! Right from the very first shot, well actually the third as the first two choked my machine, the pours were near perfect! And I was single dosing the Robur, something I was never able to do previously.


So what's the point of this thread? I am frustrated that I could buy what is supposed to be the best grinder and get bad burrs out of the box. I guess any company could have a bad item but how is the inexperienced user to know if his burrs are bad? How many users must there be that got bad machinery that have no clue?


Sorry for my rant. After all the frustration and endless days and nights wondering why I couldn't produce a good shot using the same level equipment I feel a little cheated. But now the real fun begins...

My first reaction is that the actual number of people who would be dialing in a Robur, but are also on the inexperienced side of things would be extremely low. It's probably a situation that wasn't dreamed of in their QA process.

To get a little philosophical, this is sort of an analogy for life isn't it. Maybe your future shots will taste that much sweeter after these tribulations. I know I've been there before.

Just some passing thoughts. Probably won't help any frustrations.

If you look through this post you'll see some pictures I took of a new set of Robur burrs I purchased, if you're machine was from that era it might explain the problem.

New grinder with poorly machined burrs

The set of burrs I received a couple of years later from Mazzer as replacements were clearly much better.

Ira

Aren't the new Robur burrs now already pre-seasoned to help even further?

I agree though, it seems like a lot of unnecessary frustration. I've heard that the VST refractometer could indicate when you need to change burrs before, but I never really understood how.

Mitch,
The pre-seasoned Robur burrs I ordered from La Marzocco should be in any time now. That's good news you're getting nice results with yours. Would you mind stating the extraction values you were getting before and after the new burrs?

I had the same trouble with my first 2 sets of robur burrs, which was well documented on here. Around that time, they finally switched to making them in house at Mazzer. Previously they must have been outsourced. I understand you didn't like the K10, but did you not get good shots out of it as well? Your new burrs will become much more consistent and probably faster as well during the next 10kg or so.

gyro wrote:I had the same trouble with my first 2 sets of robur burrs, which was well documented on here. Around that time, they finally switched to making them in house at Mazzer. Previously they must have been outsourced. I understand you didn't like the K10, but did you not get good shots out of it as well? Your new burrs will become much more consistent and probably faster as well during the next 10kg or so.

I got better shots from the K-10 than the old burred Robur but still wasn't able to get enough extraction. Turns out I've developed some bad habits prepping my basket to compensate for the burrs of the Robur. Once I abandoned them and focused on sealing the edges, my extraction yields went up. I didn't do any official comparisons of the two grinders so can't really comment but for me the Robur is so much easier to use, it's worth .5 gm extra waste compared to the nearly waste free Compak. The Robur ends up losing about 1 gm a shot, most of it probably spraying the counter because I removed the static screen for better chute access and less retention.

If it weren't for the refractometer, I would still be wondering why my shots always taste so sour. Now I find it a very useful tool for dialing in a new bean. Once I get a 19.5% extraction yield, I can tweak to taste but the refractometer makes dialing in much easier and quicker. Also, as soon as the burrs start going off, the extraction yield will start dropping. I know for the highly trained palated members of HB, the refractometer will only reinforce what they already know, but for most everybody else, the refractometer is an awesome training tool.

I'm interested in the single dose ability of the robur. Is there a similar bump/grind/brush effort like the k10? I remember you saying you didn't like that about the k10, but other people mention having to do this when single dosing a robur.

shawndo wrote:I'm interested in the single dose ability of the robur. Is there a similar bump/grind/brush effort like the k10? I remember you saying you didn't like that about the k10, but other people mention having to do this when single dosing a robur.

I would think any grinder with a chute will require some bump and grind but with the Robur E, the grind button is on the lid making it so easy to pulse the grinder with one hand while the brush is in the other.

I may have that beat as I use a Deadman style foot pedal to control my K10. Brush in one hand, beverage of choice in the other.