Malwani Livi - Page 8

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
drH (original poster)
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#71: Post by drH (original poster) »

I'm curious if you've ever had a chance to compare the Mazzer 83mm to the single phase 71mm conical. I'm curious if there is any difference. I have the 71 in a Helor 106 and it's pretty great, but a potential upgrade is an HG1 Prime or something similar.

tompoland

#72: Post by tompoland »

No I haven't. I can't imagine that there would be a discernible difference between the two.

I do however have the 63mm Mazzer concials in the Niche to compare to. Ideally I need someone to drop in so we can do some blind taste tests. My guess is that if I could pick the difference it would be in the 10% range, nothing dramatic.

Coincidentally (this was unplanned at the time of the Malwani arriving) I have a Hedone Honne just land on my bench - you will see it to the right of the Streitman in the pic above - it has 68mm conicals at the top of the burr chamber and 68mm flat burrs at the bottom. I haven't done a back to back comparison with the Malwani but that will be interesting also.
Some people drink coffee to wake up, I wake up to drink coffee.

Zybane

#73: Post by Zybane »

I'm about to order a Levi. Do you guys recommend it?

Is this an item that will last a very long time if taken care of and gears greased?

tompoland

#74: Post by tompoland »

I certainly recommend the Livi but there are some caveats to be aware of.

Firstly, the manufacturer (Valentin) is often responsive only after a 2nd or 3rd email. That's a pain. That said, I bought the Livi off him and I've gone back twice for extra tampers (they are amazingly great for someone like me with wrist arthritis - the 800g of weight means I have to apply very little pressure) and he has always been helfpul and even generous. I can't fault him for that it's just that it would be better if his communication was more reliable. The bottom line with this first caveat is that if you are patient enough, you'll get what you want but if you get frustrated easily then stock up on Valium or wacky-backy.

Second, while I regard the grinder as being robust and very likely highly durable, if you remove the top casing you may find the fixtures are applied randomly and may not be very elegant. I doubt they they will fall off because they are not load bearing and you'll never notice them unless you take that cover off.

Third, the standard Italmil burrs are good but IMHO not great. I replaced them with Mazzer Robur 83mm conicals and that swap was amazingly easy to do, given my general level of handyman incompetence.

The fourth caveat is the packing. Valentin has improved it since the early days but he still has some way to go to make it drop proof. Mine arrived in perfect condition (it was packed better than what others have reported) but I think I was lucky. If you order one then hammer it home to Valentin that he needs to get custom cut foam to encase the grinder in.

I have had mine since May (after an 11 months covid-inspired wait) and I use it daily and I absolutely love it. I have it paired with a Strietman CT2 because the look great together and they work well together for the style of espresso I like and finally because they are both very "hands on" machines with no buttons to push, so to speak.

The Mazzers sped up the grind time to only 15 seconds for 18 grams which is quite amazing. I think that the Livi strikes just the right balance, with it's three gears, between making the grinding easier and also making it not to long to grind for. By comparison the EG-1 (flat burrs of course) performs the same grind in 35 seconds when set to 500RPM and a Helor-106 with 71mm Mazzer Robur burrs and 4 steps gearing takes 55 seconds for the same 18 grams. By comparison the Livi, fitted with the Mazzers, is therefore pretty phenomenal.

Some people drink coffee to wake up, I wake up to drink coffee.

tompoland

#75: Post by tompoland »

drH wrote:I'm curious if you've ever had a chance to compare the Mazzer 83mm to the single phase 71mm conical. I'm curious if there is any difference. I have the 71 in a Helor 106 and it's pretty great, but a potential upgrade is an HG1 Prime or something similar.
I've done that comparison now and I can't detect any difference in the cup between the Helor and the Livi. if you put a gun to my head and forced a "confession" out of me then I'd say the 83mm has a tiny bit more body but I'd fail a blind taste test. The HG-1 Prime uses Mazzer Robur 83mm (as does the Key) from memory. So I'd say that the grinding experience will be different and shorter between the Helor and HG1 Prime, but that you would be unlikely to detect a difference in the cup. James Hoffman probably could, but not me.

But if we are talking the difference between Kony and Robur burrs, then because of the different geometry, there is a marked difference.

For example, between the 63mm Niche Zero Mazzer Kony burrs and the Mazzer Robur burrs in the Helor-106 (71mm) and the Robur burrs in Livi (83mm*) there is quite a marked difference in the cup and I'd pass a blind taste test on that, no problem. The Kony burrs taste muddier/chocolatier versus more origin flavors in the Robur burrs. The difference is not subtle. I like both but with Medium or Full City beans I prefer the Robur burrs. Give me the Niche for dark roasts.

* I swapped the stock Italmil burrs out for Mazzer Robur burrs.
Some people drink coffee to wake up, I wake up to drink coffee.

Zybane

#76: Post by Zybane »

tompoland wrote:I certainly recommend the Livi but there are some caveats to be aware of.

Firstly, the manufacturer (Valentin) is often responsive only after a 2nd or 3rd email. That's a pain. That said, I bought the Livi off him and I've gone back twice for extra tampers (they are amazingly great for someone like me with wrist arthritis - the 800g of weight means I have to apply very little pressure) and he has always been helfpul and even generous. I can't fault him for that it's just that it would be better if his communication was more reliable. The bottom line with this first caveat is that if you are patient enough, you'll get what you want but if you get frustrated easily then stock up on Valium or wacky-backy.

Second, while I regard the grinder as being robust and very likely highly durable, if you remove the top casing you may find the fixtures are applied randomly and may not be very elegant. I doubt they they will fall off because they are not load bearing and you'll never notice them unless you take that cover off.

Third, the standard Italmil burrs are good but IMHO not great. I replaced them with Mazzer Robur 83mm conicals and that swap was amazingly easy to do, given my general level of handyman incompetence.

The fourth caveat is the packing. Valentin has improved it since the early days but he still has some way to go to make it drop proof. Mine arrived in perfect condition (it was packed better than what others have reported) but I think I was lucky. If you order one then hammer it home to Valentin that he needs to get custom cut foam to encase the grinder in.

I have had mine since May (after an 11 months covid-inspired wait) and I use it daily and I absolutely love it. I have it paired with a Strietman CT2 because the look great together and they work well together for the style of espresso I like and finally because they are both very "hands on" machines with no buttons to push, so to speak.

The Mazzers sped up the grind time to only 15 seconds for 18 grams which is quite amazing. I think that the Livi strikes just the right balance, with it's three gears, between making the grinding easier and also making it not to long to grind for. By comparison the EG-1 (flat burrs of course) performs the same grind in 35 seconds when set to 500RPM and a Helor-106 with 71mm Mazzer Robur burrs and 4 steps gearing takes 55 seconds for the same 18 grams. By comparison the Livi, fitted with the Mazzers, is therefore pretty phenomenal.
These machines are beautiful together!

Valentin responded to my first email and said I could go ahead and place an order. But the web store is out of stock on the units, so I replied and asked how do I place the order. Waiting to hear back.

Do you think him going with the Italmil burrs was just a cost savings measure?

Is this the set you ordered:

https://weberworkshops.com/products/replacement-burrs

And you much prefer the Malwani Precision Tamper (leveling) over the one that comes with the Strietman (which looks pretty light-weight).

I will definitely ask Valentin about extra packing protection and will even offer to pay extra for something "Above and beyond". I really hate dealing with overseas returns etc.

tompoland

#77: Post by tompoland »

Regarding the burrs I guess he thought that the Italmil would be adequate and a lot of people would agree with that to be fair. But I don't!

In regard to the Webber workshop burrs yes they are the correct burrs but if you're happy with them being uncoated you can probably get them for half that price elsewhere. Just search for "Mazzer Robur 83mm Conical" but make sure that they are the genuine ones which always have "Mazzer" laser etched on them.

Coating them certainly looks very nice and they will last longer but you really don't need to have them coated because the uncoated ones will last past our lifetimes anyway in a hand grinder. (Those burrs were not available but if they had been I probably would have paid a bit extra because they look so darned nice.)

I love my Livi and I hope you do too. The Livi is a functional piece of art.

The tampers are definitely a big stepmup from the standard Strietman tamper. They are self levelling for starters but for my arthritic wrist their weight is such that they do most of hard work on their own. The 58mm version is over 800g and the 49mm for the Streitman is over 600g. From memory the latter was a special order.
Some people drink coffee to wake up, I wake up to drink coffee.

Zybane

#78: Post by Zybane »

Hah I just noticed your mirror on the CT2. Nice touch. I too have a bad wrist from an accident I had in a helicopter.

Don't think I'd like to press down on a tamp with the tips of my fingers, so I've been exploring options. A heavy weighted leveling tamper is probably right up my alley. Looks like the Malwani shop has the 49.5mm in stock.

I've also been looking at this; what do you think?

https://escherlabs.co/products/49-9-str ... tor-custom

I guess I will try the Italmil burrs first and see how it goes. This equipment will probably outlive me if I take care of it. I figure drinking 3x drinks per day, use multiplier of 2.5x (deduction for when I'm traveling, but also add in guest drinks), x365, say times 50 years.

So that's about 45,000 grinds/shots on my Livi and CT2. :lol:

salvia

#79: Post by salvia »

Getting off topic from the thread, but I would also take a look at the Bravo and Force tampers: Bravo Tamper vs Force Tamper - what's more foolproof?
I have the Bravo, which I really like. I ordered it directly fro
Gilberto, who makes them. You can customize size, materials, etc.

tompoland

#80: Post by tompoland »

Zybane wrote:
Don't think I'd like to press down on a tamp with the tips of my fingers, so I've been exploring options. A heavy weighted leveling tamper is probably right up my alley. Looks like the Malwani shop has the 49.5mm in stock.

I've also been looking at this; what do you think?

https://escherlabs.co/products/49-9-str ... tor-custom
Not a fan of the distributors. In testing it's clear they don't distribute the entire puck from top to bottom. You really need a puck rake and a tamper (the Malwani tampers are adjustable too).

Re the finger pressure. Remember you are not applying much force to the tamper, it's just a matter of giving it a nudge really, which you could do with either hand regardless of which hand is your normal writing hand.

And yes, whichever burrs you get will outlast you and me put together!

Sworksdesigns is my favorite puck rake see https://sworksdesign.com/WDT-Tool-p387817741

And while you are there, check out their funnels which I also regard as the best available from the ones I am aware of https://sworksdesign.com/Magnetic-Funnel-p455250493
Some people drink coffee to wake up, I wake up to drink coffee.