Hi folks:

I am helping my wife with her new tea shop (will also have coffee). Her coffee supplier is working with us on the coffee equipment. So far he is suggesting a Slayer LP 2-group paired with Compak E10 Master. The Peak was in the running, but he can get a very good price on the Compak (about $600 less than the Peak).

For the pour-over/batch brew he is suggesting either: GH2, GUA710, or EK43. The EK43 is stretching the budget, and so leaning toward the GUA710.

This grinder will also be used for decaf espresso. Any experience out there with using the GUA710 for espresso? Dialing down and back up?

The GH2 is an option, but I am a little skittish about what the low price might mean for longevity. I gather much/some of the price differences are Italian burrs and Chinese manufacturing but not sure how much that mean in the cup.

Thanks in advance for any feedback. -- Dana.

Taking into account Gua710 unimodal burr teeth it is doubtful to be able to grind for espresso with them even if they would be aligned.
it is perfect for pourovers and batch brew !

Thanks. Yes, I knew the 710 would be unimodal, and so was worried a bit about that. The coffee vendor is using the EK43 for both pour-over/batch and decaf espresso in his shop, and claims adequate results for decaf espresso.

Maybe this discussion should be about the Slayer. Is this a very high end shop where the Slayer will be highlighted and promoted or is this a high end tea shop? Does the Slayer come with a complete service contract or is on lease where you are not going to own it eventually? What will happen if the Slayer is down or needs servicing? will they immediately bring in a replacement machine and hookup within a couple hours while they fix it or will there be techs working on it during the work day? The LP is a huge improvement in reliability and I think they offered a warranty for replacement on it or something like that. The question is do you need such a complex machine where you can build pressure profiles in a Tea shop?

Slayer recently partnered/were bought by Cimbali. I would give them a couple years to refine the machine, maintenance and supply chain before taking the leap. A home user or a large shop with multiple machines can burden themselves with fixing it, but in a smaller shop with managing employees, inventory, accounting, cleaning, etc etc. a down machine can lead to major hurdles for a cafe owner.

If you want to experiment with a more unique machine that pulls better than Slayer shots on a regular basis with little training on technique and more training on general function, are easy to maintain, and rarely have downtime as you can service groups separately....consider a Spring lever 2 or 3 group. This will require more skill from a Barista than a basic Volumetric pump machine but no more than a Slayer machine. Best part is how much less cleaning you do with a Spring Lever as there will be no backflushing to mess around with.

If you are scared of a Lever but insist on a controlled preinfusion machine with paddle, maybe consider a Synesso they have a removable HX for cleaning/servicing and are generally considered rock solid. You could also go Modbar which will free up counter space and create a more craft exposed brew experience although I've never personally used one and cannot attest to its behavior.

The Compak is no problem unless you don't have a lot of volume as the retention may be noticeable on slower days. I'd say the Compak will likely be more reliable in the long term so a huge price break on it makes it an even better deal. Resale value on the Compak is a bit lower but only because it is not as friendly for home users to buy on secondary market since it is a very large piece of equipment compared to the smaller PEAK.

Thank you, Jason, for your very thorough consideration of the question and the issues involved. I appreciate all of the experience here. Now to your questions and considerations:

The focus will be on specialty tea. Coffee and espresso are a secondary offering. I have talked with her quite a bit about where she wants to put her limited resources, and about the relative merits of excellent vs. good espresso and the costs involved with going with excellent. We even talked about whether she might not even offer espresso and just offer excellent drip and pour-over. In my observation of her decision making, there are a couple factors that are pushing her toward excellence in espresso...

First, she sees a market in espresso excellence in the town where the shop is. Texarkana is a small city, and will serve about 150,000 people in the metro area. There is NO quality espresso. This may be because there is not demand for it, but like her tea shop, she is creating a niche with excellent tea and wants to extend that to espresso. The espresso competition is 2 Starbucks locations and a couple shops that specialize in food items that have espresso machines. In all cases, not great. If (VERY big IF) she can cultivate the market for espresso excellence, she will have the market cornered.

Second, she is consulting with Savoy, a tea shop chain, and they indicate 10-15% of their business is espresso. Granted, they are doing modest espresso, nothing as good as a high-end shop can produce, but they are also operating in areas where there is serious competition for excellent espresso (e.g., Onyx Coffee Lab), and so people focused on excellence go there. She has the potential to bring in folks from the region that value espresso.

Regarding deciding on a Slayer:

She will be buying the Slayer. One advantage of the Slayer is the high resale value should she ever have to sell it. She probably does not need the complexity -- She will not be tinkering with pressure profiles. Rather, her coffee supplier will likely build the profiles for her based on his coffee. He visits his shops regularly to make sure they are pulling good shots. Not sure about the replacement machine commitment. She will have to ask him.

A big problem we are facing in choosing a machine that can be serviced is not having techs in the area. We have asked other shops that have espresso who does their service, and the answer is always "we do." The nearest techs are in Dallas, 3 hours away, and so if it breaks down, she is without a tech. If they do drive out, they charge for driving time, etc. The roaster she is partnering with is still 2 hours away, but he has pledged to be the tech for the machine, and so she is drawn to that. She will have to ask him about a replacement machine, and what the realistic commitment is for service. If we had techs in the area, I would recommend going with a different machine, but so far, the only service commitment she has gotten was from her coffee supplier on the Slayer. Her supplier is also committed to providing initial and ongoing training, which she finds desirable, and so she is inclined to use the same machine he uses. BTW - I had his espresso and it was SERIOUSLY the best espresso shot I have ever had. Ever. complex layered and amazing.

Personally as a home enthusiast that works on my own HX machine, I would go with a simpler semi-auto machine, that uses easily sources standard parts that I could work on. But I have a job and can't be her tech.

So now we are trying to figure a single grinder that can do bulk and drip grinding but also double as an espresso for Decaf. Single dosing, and easily can go back and forth.

Thanks again for your thoughtful response.

I wish you the best and hope to stop by if I am ever in the area.

I second everything Jason says.

I'd ask if you're planning on making coffee a key focus of the shop (single origin roasts, rotating bean menu, pourovers, SOE, etc) or if you just need commodity grade equipment to hit parity with other nearby shops. If it's the first, then by all means go hogwild with equipment. But if it's the second there's no shame in just getting a cheaper grinder and a baseline commercial espresso machine. Keeping a used/cheap/commodity machine maintained and clean plus dialing in your shots with fresh beans every morning will put you above 75% of the competition anyway.

Either way I wouldn't use the Guat for espresso unless you get SSP burrs and plan on getting it aligned. And even then, it'll only be worth it for single origin lungos. And then you'd have to maintain it yourself. FWIW I'd recommend getting a separate grinder for decaf espresso as well, a Forte or SJ should be more than capable for a smaller shop.

Thank you Philip and Jason - For about the price of the 710, she could get the GH2 for drip & batch, and SJ for decaf espresso I think. Maybe a K10.

truemagellen wrote:I wish you the best and hope to stop by if I am ever in the area.

OK - She will be about halfway between Dallas and Little Rock one minute off I-30. Urban Tea Town in Texarkana, AR. I expect she'll be open in mid-late Nov.

Hmm I'll be in NE Dallas in February.