Lido-E vs Ditting KR805

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
dukeja

#1: Post by dukeja »

I have been using Lido-E for more than 2 years for V60, Kalita, and sometimes Aeropress. I roast my own beans with Kaldi Wide and then now Aillio Bullet V2, almost exclusively City to City+ (1C+20~30F). I also made my own Hendon-like water with slight variation. For testing/evaluation purpose, I usually use 10g beans and 1:18 water ratio with 93C water. I manage to brew consistently with such small amount of bean across V60, Kalita, and Aeropress in their own way.

I have been eyeing Ditting (or bunnzilla mod) grinder for a long time. Finally I get this beauty (probably the last one) directly from Ditting USA. I actually like its shape and weight much better than the current KR804.


The burr looks pristine and very nice:



The large hopper does not bother me at all, as soon as I open the gate, the beans just "flow" out like butter gracefully. No pop-corning, no change of motor sound, almost no grinding noise! I was so amazed since my Feima 600N (get to that later) always seems to torture the beans to death and raises my BP a bit. With some mist on beans, there is minimum retention that my scale cannot tell.

I don't drink much of espresso even I have a Flair (due to cholesterol raising issue), so I zeroed the Ditting slightly toward the coarser side (+6 clicks from touching instead of +2 spec by Ditting). With such calibration, I feel my Lido 1+3 (1 rev. + 3 clicks) is about the same as 5.5 on KR805. With such setting my V60 drain down time is about 2:15~2:25. I was a little surprised in my very first head-on comparison that Ditting grind was very slightly finer but the drain down time was actually 10sec faster.

Two cups are both delicious but the Ditting gave out more flavor with sweeter and more hint of sourness, especially as the coffee cools down. The Lido one has more rounded and more chocolate hint. It is understandable due to slightly different drain down time. But I am pretty excited that more flavor coming out of Ditting. This is quite new to me since I have not yet found other grinder that edges out my Lido-E (although I have not tried much until recently).

Right before I grabbed KR805, I actually ordered a red speed 60mm burr from SSP for my humble Feima 600N. I brought it back from Taiwan but never used it much, even after spending some time on parallel alignment using marker. Mainly I felt that it produces some unsightly fines on top of the pile. I felt some resistance using it. :) Now I have SSP at hand and a stronger spring coming from e-bay. I'll report back the comparison of this trio. The red speed SSP does looks nice. I can enjoy looking at it while drinking my coffee. :mrgreen:

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hankua
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#2: Post by hankua »

Maybe you should add a 601n to the mix for a comparison, I don't have one presently but will get on eventually.

dukeja

#3: Post by dukeja »

As far as I know there is not major changes, except the burr. So SSP+600N will be very similar to a SSP+601N, if you, like me, don't care about the cosmetic details. :)

dukeja

#4: Post by dukeja »

I have installed the SSP into my Feima 600N and did some preliminary parallel alignment with marker and foil. It is much better but I would like to keep working on it until almost perfection, since I am comparing it with Ditting and Lido-E. :) With SSP, the grinding is a lot more smoother and less noisy. I can tell the SSP is much sharper and efficient than the stock burr in Feima.

In the mean time, I kept testing Ditting and Lido-E with V60 pour with my roasted Ethiopia Yirgacheffe between City~City+. I did some quick fines comparison with #60 mesh, which has holes of 250um. I did it in a crude way so that the particle separation is probably more like at 300~350um. And Ditting does have about 15% less fines comparing to Lido-E. I'll do more systematic comparison later.

The interesting things was that when I brewed these two cups with two different approaches, the tastes were quite different. I mixed the fines back in Lido cup but left fines on top pile in Ditting cup. And I did the same pouring profile. I was very surprised that while Ditting/unmixed cup is cleaner but also plainer. The Lido/mixed cup is much sweeter and full-flavored. Yet it also agreed with my suspicion from past experience, which is that using appropriate amount of fines in a controlled pouring profile may provide rich flavor. However, the make or break depends on the amount and profile significantly.

I'll try to repeat the test with Ditting/mixing and Lido/unmixing config later. :)

dukeja

#5: Post by dukeja »

Ditting has pushed me to reach another apex of my V60 brewing that I never imagined. The grind coming out of it has been super uniform and consistent that initially I found my V60 cup out of it has less flavor than the cup coming out of Lido-E. Then I realized that the lack of fines allows me to keep using finer grind with Ditting. Recently, I got a refractometer (see this thread,Brewing reference using refractive index instead of extraction yield,) to guide my brewing, and I was able to keep pushing to finer grind and improve to my V60 pouring profile.

This morning I made a cup with 10g of Colombia Narino roasted to City+ with my Bullet. I used the setting of 4.5 (3.5 with Ditting's calibration procedure) on KR805, 180g Hendon water, 93C, drained out at 2:15. Refractometer measurement shows a TDS of about 1.36%, which gave an extraction yield of 21%. The taste was amazingly rich, sweet, and chocolatish. I cannot detect any defects and the water draining down was so amazingly smooth with no stall, even with such fine grind. It certainly made my day! Cheers!

Acavia

#6: Post by Acavia »

dukeja wrote:Ditting has pushed me to reach another apex of my V60 brewing that I never imagined. The grind coming out of it has been super uniform and consistent that initially I found my V60 cup out of it has less flavor than the cup coming out of Lido-E. Then I realized that the lack of fines allows me to keep using finer grind with Ditting. Recently, I got a refractometer (see this thread,video,) to guide my brewing, and I was able to keep pushing to finer grind and improve to my V60 pouring profile.

This morning I made a cup with 10g of Colombia Narino roasted to City+ with my Bullet. I used the setting of 4.5 (3.5 with Ditting's calibration procedure) on KR805, 180g Hendon water, 93C, drained out at 2:15. Refractometer measurement shows a TDS of about 1.36%, which gave an extraction yield of 21%. The taste was amazingly rich, sweet, and chocolatish. I cannot detect any defects and the water draining down was so amazingly smooth with no stall, even with such fine grind. It certainly made my day! Cheers!
I have a KR804 with Sweet cast burrs. On some coffees I often grind around ~3.5, 350 microns, with 3.0 being the prescribed espresso setting and still get normal V60 brew times around 3:00 to 3:30 typically. The grind looks like powder, but if spread out there is small grit to it. I am not sure why I have not gone finer on the coffees doing well at 3.5 but the coffee is so good, and the grinds look like powder, so I just stay there.

dukeja

#7: Post by dukeja »

Hay, thanks a lot for letting me know. It is great to hear from another Ditting owner to confirm it. When I got my KR805, I thought it grinds too fine for my V60 brew since I used quite coarser grind with my Lido-E. So I intentionally shift my knob to be able to grind coarser. But now on this new journey my grinds get finer and finer. My 4.5 will probably similar to your 5.5(edit: it is corrected now). And I can easily achieve 2:15 drain out time with Colombia City+ roast and Ethiopian beans at City drains out about 2:30. And I stop pouring at about 1:55.

Yes, I was pretty amazed by how fine I can go down to without tasting any defects (maybe a pat on the shoulder on the roaster, ha ha :wink: ).

TallDan

#8: Post by TallDan »

Cheers to another KR805 user!

I got mine a little over a year ago in used and neglected condition, so it's not nearly as nice looking as a brand new one. After a LOT of cleanup, some new SSP burrs and some other parts, I've been using it for my weekday drip grind duty for a month or so.

It seems like i'm getting less fines now than I initially did with it. I'll echo that after dialing in for taste, the ground coffee looks a lot finer than what i'm used to from other grinders (Baratza Vario with steel burrs was my previous grinder for pourover/drip and I've had a few others). I adjusted my zero on the dial to be just short of burrs touching, so it sounds like about .5 finer than yours, and I've been grinding at about a 4.8 for drip (technivorm with melitta paper filter). Maybe I'll try going a bit finer and see what the flavors are like.

dukeja

#9: Post by dukeja »

Greeting! Ditting Mafia! :lol:

If you turned back 2 small clicks after burr touching, as it is depicted in the manual, then I am 1 full numerical reading (4 small clicks) coarser than you are. So my 4.5 will be your 5.5. I was confused and went to the other way when I replied Acavia (I have corrected my replied now).

So it looks like you guys are even finer than I have tried, which is very interesting. I do feel the coarseness adjustment on Ditting has very high resolution so the change is very small compare to other grinder that I used before.

Acavia

#10: Post by Acavia »

dukeja wrote:Hay, thanks a lot for letting me know. It is great to hear from another Ditting owner to confirm it. When I got my KR805, I thought it grinds too fine for my V60 brew since I used quite coarser grind with my Lido-E.
My 804 grinds are not even comparable to the size I ground with a Comandante - it would almost be the difference between normal flour (my 804 V60 grinds look like powder unless I spread them out) and kosher salt. That is not a knock on the Comandante - I was grinding too coarse with it but in the range that most use for V60, 22 clicks.