Lagom P64 - grounds under sweepers

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ecuew
Posts: 151
Joined: 11 years ago

#1: Post by ecuew »

Hello,

TL;DR version: P64 sweepers aren't clearing all the grounds from the grind chamber. What's going on?

Long version : I recently purchased a second-hand P64 from a local seller. They were the first owner and had owned the grinder for less than a year. This is the 'newer' iteration of the grinder that requires tools to access the burr chamber. The grinder is in very nice cosmetic shape, with barely a scratch on the aluminum. It's equipped with SSP HU burrs, red speed coated.

When I got the grinder home I gave it a thorough cleaning and was surprised by the amount of residual grounds stuck on the bottom of the grind chamber, below the sweepers. I thought maybe the previous owner used darkly roasted coffee or perhaps too much RDT. I cleaned it up and got to pulling shots.

After 4-5 shots of relatively lightly roasted coffee, run through at speed 4 (as recommended in the manual), with a light spritzing I'm left with this:



This seems like a lot of grounds left over, right?

The grounds below the sweeper are loose but I'm sure they'd compact with more shots run through. After grinding I did tap tap the top funnel with my palm every time. After the picture above was taken I reassembled the grinder and tried ramping up to speed 9 and tapping the top funnel, it had no effect. The DF64V this is meant to replace is way better than this, as has basically all the Mazzers I've ever owned. So needless to say I'm disappointed.

I've contacted the Canadian reseller for Option O and they don't seem to think this is a huge issue. They suggested cold-starting the grinder. I have not contacted Option O yet.

Some other things to note:
-The declumper is missing;
-I've tried two different coffees, same result;
-I tried installing the DLC burrs from the DF64v, same result;
-There is an upward angle on the sweepers, which I was surprised to see. The reseller mentionned above says this is normal:




How is your P64? Is this normal? Any tips/tricks?

jmvdigital
Supporter ♡
Posts: 25
Joined: 17 years ago

#2: Post by jmvdigital »

Short of the long, yes I'm having a similar issue, but worse. Trying to work it out with Option-O but responses have been very slow.

erik82
Posts: 2206
Joined: 12 years ago

#3: Post by erik82 »

I do see some of that on my new P64 also but haven't cared. It's the tiny bit of dynamic retention which is probably less than 0.1gr. No grinder will ever be perfect and no grinder will ever have 0.0gr of retention. I don't see it as an issue but a mere side effect of the design.

This is probably more because you use RDT than it is the grinder. Have you weighted the amount in there?

ecuew (original poster)
Posts: 151
Joined: 11 years ago

#4: Post by ecuew (original poster) »

jmvdigital wrote:Short of the long, yes I'm having a similar issue, but worse. Trying to work it out with Option-O but responses have been very slow.
I'm sorry to hear that. Please let us know if/how your issue gets resolved.
erik82 wrote:I do see some of that on my new P64 also but haven't cared. It's the tiny bit of dynamic retention which is probably less than 0.1gr. No grinder will ever be perfect and no grinder will ever have 0.0gr of retention. I don't see it as an issue but a mere side effect of the design.

This is probably more because you use RDT than it is the grinder. Have you weighted the amount in there?
Good to know. I'd like to avoid the grounds getting compacted like they were were when I first got the grinder. It's odd that the speed ramp up doesn't move these grounds, I suppose it's due to the angled sweeper design.

I did run 3 x 15g doses through the grinder last night, but with a cold-start as recommended by the distributor - it made no difference. What I managed to sweep from the burrs and chamber was about 0.5g. My next tests will be trying different speeds, no RDT, and perhaps a bellows.

erik82
Posts: 2206
Joined: 12 years ago

#5: Post by erik82 »

I also have some grounds in that spot but it's less than with your grinder. It's the design that doesn't scrape the whole bottom but that isn't much. If you use medium and darker beans they stick more due to the oily nature and RDT makes that even worse. I do tap the top with my palm to get the last bits out which works great and you don't need bellows for that.

Doing a hot of cold start won't make a difference except that doing a cold start will give you a lesser quality grounds. For RPM I'm at 7 with the OM burrs. Wanted to check for you on my P64 but that would be useless as I'm running the brew burrs now so not grinding for espresso and using very light roasts.

Milligan
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Posts: 1526
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#6: Post by Milligan »

0.5g seems like a lot but you have to remember that all grinders are expected to pack some grounds into little crevices and such. I'd only count the weight of the grounds that would be removed during the grind of the next dose. The grounds that are removed during the next dose are called "exchanged" grounds. These are pretty typical and are usually no more than a few tenth's of a gram, which seems about where you are after subtracting the permanently retained grounds from the 0.5g noted.

ecuew (original poster)
Posts: 151
Joined: 11 years ago

#7: Post by ecuew (original poster) »

A bit of an update here.

I ended up contacting Option O. They mentioned the missing declumper may be a contributing factor. Luckily I just received a replacement from the Canadian distributor and will be installing it this weekend.

Option O also suggested I forgo the RDT, as Erik said above. I've tried that and the results are promising, I'm not seeing anything left under the sweepers. I was using one spray with the provided bottle.

I'm not keen to blow through a bunch good of coffee trying to diagnose this but can say that the few tests I did with 'seasoning' grade beans showed that a combination of RDT and slower grind speed seems to make grounds under the sweepers more likely. Of course all this may be temp/humidity/bean dependent so ymmv.

A final bit of information to share: I inquired about the sweeper angle. This was the response:
The sweeper design prioritizes powder discharge speed and output consistency. While it may seem like unused space, it's necessary for optimal performance.
So there you have it!

erik82
Posts: 2206
Joined: 12 years ago

#8: Post by erik82 »

Thanks for the update. If not doing RDT doesn't create a lot of static than your fine. If that's the case than your location probably doesn't really need RDT and too much is overkill (although 1 spray shouldn't make a huge difference). Everything can get even better if everything is seasoned well and less sticky due to static. Probably a lot going on in there so just keep experimenting and see what works best.

pr3450
Posts: 1
Joined: 1 month ago

#9: Post by pr3450 »

Have the same issue but only after I switched burrs. Had zero retention issues with SSP Unimodal burrs. Now that I'm using SSP high uniformity burrs, there is always grounds left over in between the upper and lower burr. Like you said, doesn't matter how high I dial up the motor speed, there is always a bit of grounds stuck. The leftover grinds also make a whining/chirping sound on top of that.

This is a unique issue I'm experiencing on the high uniformity burrs, not the unimodal.

ecuew (original poster)
Posts: 151
Joined: 11 years ago

#10: Post by ecuew (original poster) replying to pr3450 »

That is very interesting, thank you for sharing.

After my last post here I used the HUs for maybe another week with no problem. I did run the speed a bit higher and used minimal RDT. I suppose those things could have helped, but I also did more through clean of the grinder when I put in the new declumper. The sweepers are angled and I find it tricky to clean the bottom of them. In my case there was coffee stuck on there, which may have contributed to the issue.

I switched to the SSP MPs after this and have not had a problem yet.

At one point I did try using a bellows and in my case it did seem to cause grounds to get stuck on the bottom almost every time.