Lagom P64 Flat (Option-O) - Page 75

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
one_good_coffee

#741: Post by one_good_coffee »

Peter_SVK wrote:Personally I do not care about alignment while my usual setting is quite far from zero (generally at ca. 1.2 - 1.3).
What do you mean? Alignment is key no matter the setting?

Peter_SVK

#742: Post by Peter_SVK »

Generally, if you can grind fine enough for espresso (and even far from the zero), the alignment is OK, i.e. in other words, if the alignment is not OK, you can't grind fine enough. That's why I don't care. :wink:

P.S. OK doesn't mean 0 um. Due to manufacturing tolerances there still is some misalignment, but according to my experience and measurements, misalignment up to 50 um (0.05mm) it's quite OK for 64/65mm espresso burrs. However, I don't know, what exact tolerance value is OK for unimodal burrs.

one_good_coffee

#743: Post by one_good_coffee »

Peter_SVK wrote: i.e. in other words, if the alignment is not OK, you can't grind fine enough. That's why I don't care. :wink:
Oh now it makes perfect sense!

dozer

#744: Post by dozer »

@bakafish wow 59 secs is amazing. i can't achieve that. that's why i still think something is wrong with my unimodal burrs or the grinder. i'm grinding at near to the touch point (very light ethopian roast) and i can achive about 32-35 secs max with PI included..

bakafish

#745: Post by bakafish » replying to dozer »

Although my coffee beans are not that light roast, I am thinking that SSP had changed the unimodal burrs design (maybe by customer's request) to have the shallower, flatter edge of the burrs for easily making espresso, just like the pre-2015 EK43 and EK43S burrs. Please see the photos in the link below, particularly the 3rd and 4th photos:
https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.ph ... 2#79538180
I cannot see the wave edge of my burrs from the same angle. The coatings are different though. The contrasts are as below:
https://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.ph ... 3#79561634
The burrs photos on the Prima Coffee website also have bigger wave on the burrs edge. You can right click on the image to open it in the new tab to see the full size image.
https://prima-coffee.com/parts/ssp/ssp-b-ssp-sp
And avx cafe.
https://www.avxcafe.com/SSP-64mm-Mazzer ... t-d677.htm

The burrs alignment of the Lagom P64 is not promised. When you dial to the burrs touch point and hear the slight chirping sound, push the hopper from one side, you will find the sound becomes louder or disappeared. It means when you dial, you break the alignment.
★ Helpful

Peter_SVK

#746: Post by Peter_SVK »

Here is the burrs comparison (pictures taken of my grinder):

Lagom/SSP unimodal (top), Ditting 64mm (left), Lagom/SSP high-uniformity (right)


Ditting 64mm (left), Lagom/SSP high-uniformity (right)

bakafish

#747: Post by bakafish »

I just got the response from SSP.
hello,

Thank you for email. recently they asked me for make little flat surfaces on its last grinding stage.

they would like to burr set make little bit more fines to help espresso extraction. (more fines can get more back pressure)

I believe there is very minor difference between both burr sets.

I do not want customers spend cost twice for same burrs.
I am a little disppointed because I am not satisfied with the espresso and pour over made by this OPTION-O version Unimodal burrs. The espresso extraction yield is even lower than my Helor 106 hand grinder with Gorilla Gear 71mm conical burrs does. I am thinking of purchasing a new burr set from SSP directly.

dozer

#748: Post by dozer »

thanks for your work bakafish. thats exactly what i think. i don't really get this chinese thread, is there a new unimodal set or not? which burr set do you want to order directly and what do you expect? it's very strange that some people can easily do espressos with super light roasts and the unimodal burr set and some not.
The burrs alignment of the Lagom P64 is not promised. When you dial to the burrs touch point and hear the slight chirping sound, push the hopper from one side, you will find the sound becomes louder or disappeared. It means when you dial, you break the alignment.
thats exactly what I have experienced. what is your workaround?

bakafish

#749: Post by bakafish »

dozer wrote:is there a new unimodal set or not? which burr set do you want to order directly and what do you expect? it's very strange that some people can easily do espressos with super light roasts and the unimodal burr set and some not.
Please refer to the quoted part of #747. I asked SSP, is the Unimodal burrs of my OPTION-O Lagom P64 the same as the 64mm Mazzer brewing burrs on the SSP website. Hansung of SSP replied as quoted that OPTION-O recently asked him to make little flat surfaces on its last grinding stage so that it can produce a little bit more fines for espresso. That's why the previous batches users have to use near zero to grind for espresso, but I use far from zero.

I had ever read that someone on HB said the Mahlkonig Kenia for pour over is better than Guatemala. I think the Lagom P64 with Unimodal burrs can compete with Kenia. If so, I can retire my big Mahlkonig Guatemala, but the result is not. My Guatemala peforms much better. For espresso, the Lagom P64 with Unimodal burrs is not better than my Helor 106 with Gorilla Gear either. I'd like to try the original version of SSP 64mm brewing burrs.

bakafish

#750: Post by bakafish »

I also checked the same thing with OPTION-O and got the reply.
Yes, we did have a little modification made to the burrs, allowing the burrs to be able to grind a little finer. The reason is exactly as you described, that for some coffees that the original unimodal burrs will have to grind at very close to zero, which is not preferred by some of our customers. So we did ask SSP to modify that a little bit allowing the burrs to get closer, but the geometries remain the same and the results are still very unimodal-esque and different from the HU burrs. We also emphasized to keep the modification as minimal as possible, trying to hit the sweet spot, as we understand doing it too much can inadvertently affect the result.

You should still see some waviness when the burrs are closed though. Below is the photo of the burrs side by side, the left is the original burrs, and the right is the same batch as you got.



Would you be interested in testing out the original burrs and we could also use your feedback - as in our own testing, we did find the new version delivering close enough results from the original one and hence we used that.
After I told Hayden I have ordered a new burr set from SSP, OPTION-O actively refunded 200 USD to me and replied as below. Really appreciate.
We're sorry you're dissatisfied with the new burrs but we're keen to hear what you think of between the two burrs. We're coffee enthusiasts ourselves and are interested both personally and as a manufacturer. Our policy has been we want to ensure each of our customers are satisfied with our grinders and definitely have a pleasant experience. Having you to purchase an extra burr set is definitely not our intention so our apologies.