Lagom P64 Flat (Option-O) - Page 122

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
konacano

#1211: Post by konacano »

The P64 "Unimodal" burrs are now actually "multipurpose". They are modified Unimodal burrs with fine finishing teeth to increase production of fines for espresso. In theory they function like "High Uniformity" burrs at espresso settings, and "Unimodal" at coarser setting like for a V60. I believe SSP markets them as Universal burrs (think I read that somewhere?)

https://prima-coffee.com/parts/ssp/643-ssp-sp

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instantkamera

#1212: Post by instantkamera »

Any idea when this happened? I have a set of replacement 'unimodal' burrs (my original ones were blemished as a manufacturing defect) that I received summer last year. Is there any way to identify this change, visually? I haven't installed them yet, but there's no markings on the burrs themselves that indicate geometry/model and the box reads "64mm Brewing, Red".

Edit:

Like a good boy, I've read the entire thread from where I left off (I'm an OG backer and have had no major apparent issues until recently).

It seems like my recent issues (I just started using 58mm based espresso with a variety of baskets) are not as uncommon as I'd hoped. With the unimodal ssps I am wholly unable to choke the machine - even with 19g into an Espresso Parts 14g ridgeless I get gushers at or near rub point.

I've reached out to Hayden for possible solutions. I was still on the roller nuts, have moved to paper shimming the collar, without much success.

Much like some people have noted here, some of the ugly fast shots still taste reasonably good considering, so I'd really like to find a solution where the Lagom works for me.

Coffees are all light-roasted (generally filter roasts since I normally drink 50% pour over).

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konacano

#1213: Post by konacano »

You almost certainly have the original SSP unimodal burrs the first couple orders shipped with. Multipurpose burrs will have no issue choking any machine. Mine are capable of grinding to an almost paste like fine powder. Visually they are easy to differentiate. The Multipurpose burrs have small teeth on the outer perimeter. Check the photo in Prima coffee link in my last post. If yours doesn't have the fine outer teeth it's an SSP Unimodal.

Before swapping out burr sets, you might try 21g baskets to help increase puck resistance if you're getting gushers. I think they taste better anyway, but you'll go through coffee faster. I home roast so not as expensive of a proposition. With a leveler and light insurance tamp and preinfusion I get even extraction every time. I wouldn't immediately blame burr alignment for this issue. Also coffee plays a big role in gushing. Old stale coffee or dark roast will have less resistance, doubtful that's your issue but mention this for others.

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instantkamera

#1214: Post by instantkamera »

konacano wrote:You almost certainly have the original SSP unimodal burrs the first couple orders shipped with. Multipurpose burrs will have no issue choking any machine. Mine are capable of grinding to an almost paste like fine powder. Visually they are easy to differentiate. The Multipurpose burrs have small teeth on the outer perimeter. Check the photo in Prima coffee link in my last post. If yours doesn't have the fine outer teeth it's an SSP Unimodal.
Sorry, in my edit I meant to clarify that I was able to answer the burr question after reading the thread; the replacement burrs are, in fact, still the old unimodal style.
Before swapping out burr sets, you might try 21g baskets to help increase puck resistance if you're getting gushers. I think they taste better anyway, but you'll go through coffee faster. I home roast so not as expensive of a proposition.
There's actually still a good amount of headroom in the 14, but it's updosed significantly. I don't believe 21g baskets will have a slower 'inherent flow', so at best it's 21g of coffee, at worst I'd also have to updose those baskets to 23-25g, which is obviously untenable.
With a leveler and light insurance tamp and preinfusion I get even extraction every time. I wouldn't immediately blame burr alignment for this issue. Also coffee plays a big role in gushing. Old stale coffee or dark roast will have less resistance, doubtful that's your issue but mention this for others.
Given that I have no issues pulling shots on the same machine, with my other grinders (kinu m47 and Helor 101) and the same coffee, I'm certain it the grinder. Whether or not it's an addressable issue, or just a limitation of the setup is certainly still up for debate, but I find it troublesome that Steve R and others have success grinding espresso and are not within a single tick of burr rubbing. Alignment is the only explanation I can think of, but Im certainly open to hearing other explanations.

konacano

#1215: Post by konacano »

I hear your frustration and would be frustrated as well. As a last resort you should try running max RPM to increase fines.

If that doesn't work then I recommend switching to Multipurpose or High Uniformity burrs. Unimodal burrs in your grinder are better suited for corse grinding, not espresso. The issues you are experiencing pulling espresso shots is not unusual.

I'm very happy with the Multipurpose burrs that came in my P64. Good luck.

bwidjaja
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#1216: Post by bwidjaja »

I am a new owner of the Lagom P64 and flat burr grinder in general, I need to re-orient myself on what setting I should start with. I have been using a lighter medium roast Ethiopian that I know pretty well. Previously I used Baratza Virtuoso for drip and BPlus Appollo hand grinder for espresso. I have been able to get tasty cups from those two grinders.

The grinder: chirping point is at number 5

For drip: i have settled at 9 (6 major numbers counter clockwise from chirp). However, it seems that I am not able to get as sweet as the drip i got from Virtuoso. It seems to have more clarity, but not as sweet and there is even hints of slight bitter aftertaste. If i grind coarser, i seem to get hints of under-extraction.

I have not really tried to dial in for espresso yet and thought would ask for advice if there are general starting point of how far from chirp I should try.
So please educate me on difference in taste I am experiencing in Drip and starting point for espresso.

msg
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#1217: Post by msg »

How are all of you thinking about RPMs? For espresso, I'm setting RPMs to 7. For pour over, I'm setting RPM to 1, intending to increase fines.

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Ad-85
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#1218: Post by Ad-85 »

I think there has been some changes to lagom! The one in The Hoff's review is a bit bigger with a different catching cup too.

I recieved my unimodal lagom in July 2020 and I started seasoning it with 5 kilos immediately after unboxing. I've been using it daily since then. Tbh I was struggling with it until this week! I was astonished by the uniformity of the particles and I suspect it will even get better and better.

I'm only using it for brewing and have been enjoying Yemeni / Ethiopian / Costa Rican / Salvadorian beans so far.

I still don't like Colombian but I'll give it another try soon.

I'm really glad I went with the lagom and I love doing RDT without worrying about rusting and the single dosing with minimal retention is absolutely amazing. However, it's over priced for a pour over grinder but in my case I think it's worth it and I have no regrets. The life time machined alignment guarantee on it is the reason I got it in the first place.

I'll be receiving a monolith Max with SLM burrs in May and I'll do a pour over test then. I predict that the unimodal burrs (even those small 64mm) will out perform the 98mm burrs which are intended for espresso only. Then I'll start saving for the espresso machine :(

This started as a hobby but boy I've never saved anything by making coffee at home! This is my End-Game setup and it'll be like that for many many years to come (hopefully)

Like this comment if you feel that you have invested heavily in this hobby way more than it should be but still have no regrets! What is conscious??

bbmm75

#1219: Post by bbmm75 »

msg wrote:How are all of you thinking about RPMs? For espresso, I'm setting RPMs to 7. For pour over, I'm setting RPM to 1, intending to increase fines.
Ditto. I use RPM 1 for Pour Overs and super happy on the lesser fines and grind uniformity.
LMWDP #680

Peter_SVK

#1220: Post by Peter_SVK »

lessthanjoey wrote:Here's a question then for both of you:
- With grinder off (but after running until close to chirp to clear out any stuck beans), tighten until the burrs don't turn any more just using your fingers (go past a little drag until your fingers can't turn the burrs)
- Loosen back up(!), start the grinder, and then run until chirping
- How far apart are those two settings?
I'm sorry for late replay, I somehow stopped receiving e-mail annotations from H-B about new posts hence haven't looked at the forum earlier.
3 - 4 marks on my scale (3 - 4 out of 100 marks), unimodal burrs, so based on 0.5mm grinder thread pitch (pre Oct 2020, as per Hayden's info) that's 15 - 20 um.