Lagom P64 Flat (Option-O) - Page 117

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Kjote0422

#1161: Post by Kjote0422 »

bakafish wrote:image
My teflon tape is too thick so I used it only on the red lines and used the transparent tape on the blue lines.
Hi Bakafish,

Can you please show us the side view?

Eiern

#1162: Post by Eiern »



I'm borrowing a Lagom for the weekend. Same original SSP unimodals as I have in my Super Jolly.

First impressions are good. Similar results as Mazzer with SSP but better workflow, more silent, smaller, better appearance, my wife agrees it's worth it to upgrade 8) Maybe a tad cleaner tasting, will do side by side testing but expect similar-ish results.

I managed to get several marks better alignment from what it was when I got it only by trying out the possible orientations of the burrs (9 variations for the static carrier with it's orientation in the grinder) and stumbled upon way worse alignment as well, so it seems you can get at least 5 marks difference in total by mounting alone (I used a torque screwdriver) at least in some cases.

I'll get back, especially if there's anything more to add. If not I might get back when I own one.

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Word_salad

#1163: Post by Word_salad » replying to Eiern »

Interested in hearing more about this. I also have an SJ with SSP unimodal, I love the coffee it makes but the Lagom does seem to have a much better workflow. Might be worth it for that. Any thoughts on variable rpm? Do you think it makes a noticeable difference?

Arafel

#1164: Post by Arafel »

Eiern wrote:image

I'm borrowing a Lagom for the weekend. Same original SSP unimodals as I have in my Super Jolly.

First impressions are good. Similar results as Mazzer with SSP but better workflow, more silent, smaller, better appearance, my wife agrees it's worth it to upgrade 8) Maybe a tad cleaner tasting, will do side by side testing but expect similar-ish results.

I managed to get several marks better alignment from what it was when I got it only by trying out the possible orientations of the burrs (9 variations for the static carrier with it's orientation in the grinder) and stumbled upon way worse alignment as well, so it seems you can get at least 5 marks difference in total by mounting alone (I used a torque screwdriver) at least in some cases.

I'll get back, especially if there's anything more to add. If not I might get back when I own one.
Nice collection of grinders! I'd be curious to hear your impressions of the Lagom vs. the Ceado.

Eiern

#1165: Post by Eiern »

Pulled some shots with the same beans and measured extraction now. I do not have tons of VST filters left for measurments and not a ton of the same bean to waste dialling in and comparing. Full speed with the Lagom. I use a paper filter on top for a cleaner machine (and better results in the cup in general).

Wendelboe filter roast 18g VST basket to 54g, with Lelit Bianca hitting 6 bars after a slow preinfusion (15-20 secs before first drop) ending at 4 bars or just above aiming at 40+ seconds total is my starting point recipe for all beans and I go finer or coarser depending on taste balance. Around 2g/sec flow into the cup after the first 10 or so grams and out.

I tried to hit the same pressure peak and end pressure with my Bianca together with similar timing for the most similar shots.

The Lagom is possibly better aligned than my Mazzer. I ground at 4,5 marks from running zero point with Lagom for similar flow as about 1,5 marks max from running zero with SJ. Lagom is 0.01mm per mark and Mazzer 0.015 per mark. With the Lagom I would have choked any normal machine as I almost choked my Bianca with VST basket and slow preinfusion, which require a fine grind, and I let it sit there long without ramping up to not choke completely. I could not have done this with my Mazzer as I often grind 1 notch from zero with decent flow.

Lagom extracted 18/54.4g at 24.87%
Mazzer did about the same but it's hard to really dial in these unimodals especially with the Mazzers collar system. Small changes do make changes in flow and extraction. I might have been able to match the flow and extraction exactly with some more tiny changes in grind setting.

The shots tasted very similar. Maybe a little less body with the Lagom but a little cleaner. Mazzer a little fuller body but more muddy tasting. I did one Mazzer that run too fast and one a little slower than Lagom and the taste difference was consistent for both the one with lower extraction and the one with similar extraction as the Lagom. That's possibly the difference in alignment. I should have compared more shots. I'd probably pick different grinder as favorite depending on beans.

My EK43S with Titus carrier and SSP High Uniformity burrs also had thinner body but more clarity than my Mazzer with Unimodals. Maybe the Lagom taste really similar to that actually. I now have the cast burrs in my EK and use it for filter. I can't grind filter roast with the stock EK burrs for espresso as it get's too acidic, it also runs too fast with the Bianca which is why I ended up looking into dedicated grinders for espresso in addition to ease without going between filter and espresso settings.

The Lagom produced less clump in the grounds. It's more quiet. It's easier to adjust the setting. It grinds straight into the basket but this time I used the catch cup and transfer to get the same workflow and distribution as the Mazzer.

The lagom really needs the water spritz or two for best retention and minimal static. I don't do it with my Mazzer. So it does take away the cleaning step and distribution step from Mazzer, but adds the RDT. I don't like putting water into a grinder conceptually but hey if it's needed and works.

If my Frankenjolly was as well aligned as the Lagom maybe they would produce indistinguishable shots? But they do have different workflow and appearance. I might get the Lagom for espresso and be happy with it. I like the more elegant workflow (except the RDT step) and definitely the reduced noise.

That it can pull off good extraction from light roasts with the Bianca is cool. I hit 26% 1:3 with my Frankenjolly the other day and I'm sure the Lagom would do it too. I'm not sure I need more clarity than this, I almost found my High Uniformity's presentation of beans with the EK boringly clean and lacking body. So I think it's a sweet spot, before it gets either too muddy or acidic, and not tainted by dry bitterness. I don't think you NEED 98mm burrs to do light roast clean high extraction espresso as the SSP Unimodal/Lagom demonstrates.

That's it for now. I might buy a Lagom and be set with grinders for a good while.

Eiern

#1166: Post by Eiern »

PS: using unimodal burrs for espresso is merciless: they expose bad beans and roast, they are hard to dial in and control, but it's the style of espresso I like to drink. Not all beans are suited for it!

I might try the High Uniformity burrs or other burr designs that focus more on body down the line, but I like to taste the distinct aromas of a particular bean like I do in filter. I think it's cool that I can use the exact same beans and get a similar taste only a more concentrated version. I know this is not what everybody else wants from espresso though.
★ Helpful

Eiern

#1167: Post by Eiern »

The Lagom loaner has been great, I really like the workflow and it has delivered great results in the cup, really clean, so I just put in my order for one and will get it may-ish.

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discsinthesky

#1168: Post by discsinthesky »

Eiern wrote:PS: using unimodal burrs for espresso is merciless: they expose bad beans and roast, they are hard to dial in and control, but it's the style of espresso I like to drink. Not all beans are suited for it!
I think this point is worth emphasizing.

Word_salad

#1169: Post by Word_salad »

Eiern wrote:PS: using unimodal burrs for espresso is merciless: they expose bad beans and roast, they are hard to dial in and control, but it's the style of espresso I like to drink. Not all beans are suited for it!
So I have found the multipurpose burrs on my Super Jolly to not be that difficult. No more than the HU. However I am using a La Peppina with complete control over temp and pressure, and pulling at max of 7 bar, so maybe thats it.

Eiern

#1170: Post by Eiern »

I actually don't have problems myself either, gentle preinfusion with Bianca and I hit 6 bars max declining to 4-5 at the end of the shot. But I have read about plenty people finding it hard. I can see it might be harder with a more standard machine like Linea with fixed flow and say 9 bar pressure. A slow (enough) proper preinfusion really helps the shots. Or if the beans and roast just don't fit the taste profile or one tries to do ratios/flows not optimum. I'm at about 2g/sec or just over with most coffees.

But with light filter roast and soft water I really have to nail the extraction to get really satisfied with a the balance. That's sometimes within half a mark difference with these burrs. It's really clear if it's too fine or too coarsely ground and a mark finer can make a shot go from 40 to 48 seconds here. It's a clear sweet spot, I can tell if I'm at it or not. Still, it's very rare that I get sink shots. But it's not hard to get to that sweet spot, I'm there within just a few tries with a new bean and then the setting stay pretty much the same throughout the bag.