Lagom P64 Flat (Option-O) - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
yoshi005
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#11: Post by yoshi005 » Aug 16, 2019, 12:53 am

truemagellen wrote:World class grinders with 64mm is technically true a decade ago. Things have changed though. Doesn't mean it won't be a great grind but it may go after the Niche Zero more than a monolith and will equal higher volumes and get the modern crowd who may be avoiding the niche retro feel.
Size does Not matter that much. It's the geometry that counts. Mahlkönig has decent 65mm burrs in their ProM and Kenia which are well suited for light roasts.

I would not discount the grinder just on its burr size.
LMWDP #453

ds

#12: Post by ds » replying to yoshi005 » Aug 16, 2019, 9:44 am

There is no replacement for displacement...

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redbone

#13: Post by redbone » Aug 16, 2019, 11:45 am

The advantage of a large flat burr is the ability to have a greater coarse and polishing / final grind geometry. All singular type burr grinders performs a multi function from initial breaking of bean on inside of flat burr to coarse grinding in middle and final stage of fine or polishing grind at outside of burrs all via centrifugal force. All processes have to be packaged into one burr set. Smaller burrs have a disadvantage in that in order to maintain the same output they must rotate faster and have less area to incorporate the varying geometries. The last two stages, coarse and fine / polishing grinding are diminished since it's difficult to lesson the bean breaking portion without affecting the size of bean fragments required to enter the next grind phase of coarse grinding. DRM mixed burrs conical and flat burr set have dedicated roles with the conical burr breaking the beans allowing the flat burr surface to fully utilize only the coarse and final / polishing geometries. As per Versalab "Conical burrs combined with 68mm. flat burrs. Total grind path of 40.6mm or about the equivalent of 96+mm flat burrs." Large flat burrs and DRM burr sets come at a cost including increased difficulty to align, greater power requirements and increased price tag of burrs. All grinds produce a varied grind size distribution. Theoretically increased final stage time and processing results in a more polished grind coupled with the lower speed and heat for optimal flavours.

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truemagellen

#14: Post by truemagellen » Aug 16, 2019, 11:51 am

yoshi005 wrote:Size does Not matter that much. It's the geometry that counts. Mahlkönig has decent 65mm burrs in their ProM and Kenia which are well suited for light roasts.

I would not discount the grinder just on its burr size.
I am not disagreeing but you could say the new standard is Mahlkonig 80mm Peak burrs. Ek43s burrs are overkill for most of population and bring their own set of problems.

TheWhiteYeti

#15: Post by TheWhiteYeti » Aug 16, 2019, 11:20 pm

triodelover wrote:Where did you find that it had variable RPM? Neither the Option-O nor the Helor site list that as a feature (yet).
If you look at the picture that is straight-on it looks like a knob on the left that would be able to be turned for variable speed (though I don't see a readout for RPM). Looking closely on the right it looks like the power button. Just speculation though as nothing has been confirmed.

Donguanella
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#16: Post by Donguanella » Aug 17, 2019, 12:35 am

As both a Helor Stance Motor owner as well as a Kafatek Monolith Flat owner I'm very excited to see some competition in the marketplace. While the Monolith seems to be the gold standard around these parts, I've always thought that my Option-O HSM was better built and way prettier than my Monolith. Curious to see how this new grinder compares!

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instantkamera

#17: Post by instantkamera » Aug 23, 2019, 11:10 am

ds wrote:There is no replacement for displacement...
There's a certain irony in that analogy since it's basically BS in real-world, practical (and often not-exactly-practical) scenarios. I think the same is the case here.

davidhunternyc

#18: Post by davidhunternyc » Aug 28, 2019, 9:41 pm

So is everyone saying that the Option-O flat won't be as good as the Kafatek Monolith Titan Flat because the Lagom has smaller burrs than the Monolith? It seems like the Kafatek is aware of other grinder developements and they are already on V2 of their flat while other companies are coming out with their first.

TallDan

#19: Post by TallDan » Aug 31, 2019, 6:24 am

More details and pictures posted on the option-o site. Pre-orders available in a week. $1475 with standard burrs and $1585 with SSP red speed. Much less than the monolith flat. Is there any single dosing flat burr grinder in this price range to compare to? I've got to say I'm pretty tempted by this.

wai2cool4u

#20: Post by wai2cool4u » Aug 31, 2019, 8:07 am

this slots in nicely between a niche and a monolith by offering smaller flat burrs. i'm sure it'll do well since there is no direct competition currently.

the website has been updated to confirm variable rpm and +-20micron alignment.