Lagom P100 vs Monolith Flat MAX - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Tony163

#11: Post by Tony163 »

Mech33 - did you have the original MC4 with the single set of conical or the new one with the double set. If I understand it correctly (?), the new one is supposed to be a significant advancement over the original.

Mech33

#12: Post by Mech33 »

kidloco wrote:This is not comparable. I had P100 and changed it to MC4 I enjoy - it because it suits the coffees I drink and my taste better. P100 excels with light roasts; dark roast is mostly undrinkable. Medium roasts are just very different and depend on what you want from coffee.

P100 and MAX, yes, you can compare those. I would put it like this: If I had P100, I would not upgrade to MAX but also vice versa. P100 has the best workflow of all grinders I have ever used, and I used it a lot. MAX is beautiful and has shurikens you can not get anywhere else...

At the end, it is going to be your choice. If I really had to choose, I would say if you drink strictly light roasts pulled a bit longer, go with P100, if not MAX.
Like I said, *for my taste*, the P100 results were consistently better, and this was the case for any coffee I threw at it. But I only make milk drinks (Americanos and Lattes mostly), so straight espresso may be different. Add to that the improved workflow, design aesthetic, and serviceability, and it was a no brainer for me which one to keep. And honestly this surprised me because up until I tried the P100, I was quite happy with the MC4 (other than the struggles with puck channeling).

I suspect the Max would be very similar to the P100 from a grind perspective and thus a taste perspective. I recognize the Shuriken burrs are different and only available from Kafatek.

One thing is for sure: I'm glad my puffing days to get all the grinds out of my grinder every shot are over! I do miss the Kafatek fork design though.

Mech33

#13: Post by Mech33 »

Tony163 wrote:Mech33 - did you have the original MC4 with the single set of conical or the new one with the double set. If I understand it correctly (?), the new one is supposed to be a significant advancement over the original.
All of the MC4 are the duo burr set (one of the differentiations of MC4 vs MC3).

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EvanOz85

#14: Post by EvanOz85 »

Just echoing what kidloco said; Comparing the P100 to the MC4 is totally irrelevant for this conversation. Two completely different styles of grinders aimed at two completely different styles of espresso.

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz

#15: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz »

kidloco wrote:P100 has the best workflow of all grinders I have ever used, and I used it a lot. MAX is beautiful and has shurikens you can not get anywhere else...
.
I have not kept up with grinder conversations. Can you say more about the workflow? I have a Flat, not a Max, and the workflow seems so simple, so what is it that you appreciate in the P100? Thanks.
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Mech33

#16: Post by Mech33 »

Workflow benefits of the P100 from my experience:

- very fast grind
- single button press with auto purge and stop
- very low static making RDT more optional (zero grinds outside of the portafilter if I RDT, which I still do)
- no bellows required to get all the grinds out. The auto high speed purge does most of the work, followed by one tap of the built-in knocker (which usually does nothing if you RDT'd)

And if you consider cleaning as part of your workflow, it is quite easy to open the grinder to sweep it (just rotate off the top). That said, I've opened the grinder after 30 days or so, and it is so clean inside that I stopped bothering. The auto-purge and grind chamber design appears to do a great job.

One downside to the workflow: the portafilter forks are harder to align with the portafilter than the large ramped Kafatek forks. Option-O went a little too far on the design aesthetic side with those! Luckily they just simply bolt on so replacement forks could be an option some time. I know SWORKS was considering making their spring-loaded forks for the P100.

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz

#17: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz »

My thoughts on each in caps and bold only for identification ease.
Mech33 wrote:Workflow benefits of the P100 from my experience:

- very fast grind I LIKE IT SLOW - OTHER THINGS TO DO TO GET SET UP IN THE MORNING
- single button press with auto purge and stop OK IF THATS NEEDED - FOR ME I DON'T NEED IT THAT PRECISE
- very low static making RDT more optional (zero grinds outside of the portafilter if I RDT, which I still do) I USE A CATCH CUP ANYWAY SO THIS DOESN'T MATTER ON WHERE THE GRINDS GO; AND IN AZ YOU HAVE TO RDT
- no bellows required to get all the grinds out. The auto high speed purge does most of the work, followed by one tap of the built-in knocker (which usually does nothing if you RDT'd). SAME AS ABOVE TO EACH HIS OR HER OWN; NOT NEEDED FOR OUR FAMILY MOST MORNINGS.

And if you consider cleaning as part of your workflow, it is quite easy to open the grinder to sweep it (just rotate off the top). That said, I've opened the grinder after 30 days or so, and it is so clean inside that I stopped bothering. The auto-purge and grind chamber design appears to do a great job.

One downside to the workflow: the portafilter forks are harder to align with the portafilter than the large ramped Kafatek forks. Option-O went a little too far on the design aesthetic side with those! Luckily they just simply bolt on so replacement forks could be an option some time. I know SWORKS was considering making their spring-loaded forks for the P100.
Thanks for posting this. I thought it might be something new or different. Similar concerns and each person can choose how important these are to them. For me not so much for others maybe a lot so thanks for describing them.
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Flannelsec

#18: Post by Flannelsec »

Having had both, it's a wash. The knocker on the p100 was an easier workflow than remembering to do a short purge before grinding another shot later in the day with the Max; but the portafilter holder on the Max was much better than the P100. Shot for shot it's a toss up. Depending on the beans you use it for straight espresso or milk drinks, you could get by with much less.

LindoPhotography

#19: Post by LindoPhotography »

MC4 always had the pre-breaker burr set, 'dual burr' ish. It was the MC3 I believe or maybe even MC2 and earlier that was more a typical conical burr grinder (no pre-breaker burr).
Tony163 wrote:Mech33 - did you have the original MC4 with the single set of conical or the new one with the double set. If I understand it correctly (?), the new one is supposed to be a significant advancement over the original.

Kilos&Koffee

#20: Post by Kilos&Koffee »

I've got a max with LM burrs, i really want to try the SW burrs, but it's a lovely grinder. I love that the max is built like a tank, i love that most of the parts that could break are "off the shelf" components that i should be able to replace even if kafatek decides to shut down.

I have nothing to add to this conversation other than I was asking myself the same question due to the fact the workflow of the max is annoying and messy. If i'm only making 1 shot, which is most of the time, i run a paint brush along the burrs while they are running to get the remaining coffee out. Then i hit it with the bellows which blows coffee everywhere, then i remove the magnetic downspout and brush that out.

I'd love to try a P100 out, i'm sure my pallet isn't sophisticated enough to pick 1 grinder over the other from a taste perspective, but i'm definitely having a grass is greener complex from the workflow perspective.