Lagom P100 - Page 44

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
cibby

#431: Post by cibby »

Where can I read up on the different p100 burr options? I got a little confused reading a post on the Kafatek forum. It seemed to suggest that at some point there was a 98 SSP HU burr that was renamed by SSP to LU, and they offered a new version of the HU burrs that I presume are what ship standard w the p100.

mikeTRON

#432: Post by mikeTRON »

How close are people grinding to the chirp point in the P100?

Reading about the P64 it seems people are much closer than I would have expected. Is this normal on other flats like the Kafateks?

Eiern

#433: Post by Eiern » replying to mikeTRON »

Depend on the burr, with HU I'm usually 10-13 notches from zero, with ULF 8-10 notches mostly and Brew 1-3 notches from zero so very close to zero. Users have reported slight differences probably caused by the individual burr set/alignment/espresso machine/beans/traditional vs. turbo flow etc.

Eiern

#434: Post by Eiern »

cibby wrote:Where can I read up on the different p100 burr options? I got a little confused reading a post on the Kafatek forum. It seemed to suggest that at some point there was a 98 SSP HU burr that was renamed by SSP to LU, and they offered a new version of the HU burrs that I presume are what ship standard w the p100.
I don't think there is any one place you can read something objective on the 98mm burr options. Not many owners have all sets (although a friend does and I have three). Espresso Aficionados on discord has one Option-O thread and one Burr Catalog thread where most have been brought up if you search.

Option-O don't describe the burr choices, they have tried all and recommend HU. HU is my least favore set for both methods if I'm not after traditional tight intense punchy espresso but probably the burr most close to traditional espresso although users find they still taste better at higher flow rates or don't pull "pretty" while they pour. I bet is the burr that cuts through best for milk drinks. All burrs can do both brew and espresso if you adapt to the burr and don't try to force traditional flows and ratios. It can be harder to dial in beans for espresso with LU and Brew.

BaristaBob

#435: Post by BaristaBob »

mikeTRON wrote:How close are people grinding to the chirp point in the P100?

Reading about the P64 it seems people are much closer than I would have expected. Is this normal on other flats like the Kafateks?
Not that it crosses over for you but my Kafatek MFlat "chirps" between 0 and 1...and I mostly grind between 2.5 and 4.
Bob "hello darkness my old friend..I've come to drink you once again"

zefkir

#436: Post by zefkir »

cibby wrote:Where can I read up on the different p100 burr options? I got a little confused reading a post on the Kafatek forum. It seemed to suggest that at some point there was a 98 SSP HU burr that was renamed by SSP to LU, and they offered a new version of the HU burrs that I presume are what ship standard w the p100.
Agreed, it's hard to find anywhere with objective data, not that objective data when it comes to personal taste really exists fwiw.

Anyway, I've had the LU, the HU and the Brew burr.

For me, it goes a bit in reverse. Personal taste comes into play.

The HU accentuates the top notes of espresso a bit. Big florals, can edge on bitterness, but I generally don't mind the kind of bitterness you can find in light roasts that are pushed a bit far. For me, it behaves well, at 16:48 in 20s. If you want something easier to dial, they are the way to go (or you could get an EK43 burr from either MK or SSP).

The LU is a bit more balanced towards brown sugar sweetness. It's a burr that flows really fast, at the same extraction yield (Atago), it needs a shorter shot duration than the HU. For me, it likes even faster shots, like 16:48 in 15s. I have had edges cases with 25% EY shots under 10s with those. They can be harder to dial under 1:2 (I would tentatively recommend a 15s shot at 4 bar, but I haven't really explored the space).

Brew burrs were unusable for me as I like paper-filtered shots which require a finer grind than they were capable of producing. Still decent EY numbers, but unbalanced shots. Though, people have had success with them if they stick to straight shots without any form of PI.

Both numbers are median, there can be a plus-minus 10s depending on the coffee I use. And this is specific to my setup, profile and personal taste.



@mikeTRON Yes, people grind with the HU and the LU very close to chirp. If you take a close-up look at the grind, it's ridiculously fine compared to more traditional burrs, and even then it doesn't offer a lot of resistance to the flow. The good thing is that the P100 is still truly zero retention when you grind at those settings with the HU. With the LU and the Brew, there's can be 0.2g of exchange stuck in the outfalls of the burrs

mikeTRON

#437: Post by mikeTRON »

BaristaBob wrote:Not that it crosses over for you but my Kafatek MFlat "chirps" between 0 and 1...and I mostly grind between 2.5 and 4.
That's helpful, thanks.

Eiern

#438: Post by Eiern »








Eiern

#439: Post by Eiern »

So for a little fun I installed my current generation EK43 burrs in the P100. The two spacer rings I got for my Brew burrs worked to get the static burrs outfall over the lip of the carrier.

With a little shimming of the static burr and trying out for the best mounting position for the rotating burr I got full wipe for both burrs.

They make more noise than all SSP burrs as they have dull precrushing section instead of sharp opposing edges.

Dialing in they are more gradual and the pressure declines more gradual and I suspect they have more fines than my SSP burr sets. I haven't had crema looking like that with my SSP burrs, just a thin more uniformly colored layer that doesn't last long.

They taste a little better at speed 3 in the P100 than full speed in EK where they could be too acidic with open flat pressure profile.

They taste more blended and more base note than my ULF/Brew burrs, with a thicker mouthfeel. For this Wendelboe Caballero bean they taste like drinking melted dark chocolate. It's sweet but SSP burrs are more clear an let me also taste more of the berry/fruit notes.

I will pull some more different beans with them and also filter. I can side by side filter with the Brew burrs in my EK43S later on.

Eiern

#440: Post by Eiern »