KRUVE sifter - First impressions - Page 6

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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barberrian

#51: Post by barberrian »

@AssafL - good advice, Thanks. I read a thread where it was suggested that different beans would extract best at different temperatures. That resonated with me so I started pulling the lever on my Pavoni three times to get a more interesting extraction on my blend of 4 different beans. The crema is always best on the third pull. I like the lungo. I applied to concept to the X3. I'm right on the edge of sour with the Pavoni if I don't hit the edge the shot is very good. I'll cut back to 2 ounces on the X3 tonight.
My technique developed over years by trial and error. My handle barberrian adopted from the barberry bushes that grow wild on the coastal hills that surround my house, and then there's the barbary coast in San Francisco, no relation to the one in Africa. I'm not a barbarian but I do eat with a fork and knife which I read would qualify me as one in certain parts of China. So I maintain some competence with chop sticks in case I visit there.
Tonight I ground 20g of beans and used 350um for the fines, 900um for the boulders and weighed the sifted coffee:
5.97 boulders
14.08 for espresso
.26 fines
The 2 oz shot pulled in 1 1/2 minutes. My 1 cc taste after the shot was excellent and enhance the coffee flavor and had a quich finish. My jaded impression perhaps the best shot I've tasted from this Geisha. The latte seemed to enhance the floral flavor. Overall a nice experience. My wife said she wouldn't want it stronger. I was thinking that it was a good base for a mocha, or maybe a smaller cup. I'll try this same technique for the grind again tomorrow.
I'll use the boulders in my morning grind for the Pavoni. I treated a Buddha plant with the fines. Nothing wasted. Yesterday the herbs in the garden got the fines perhaps something gained. Kruve filters, I'm very impressed with my filtered espresso grind, a very nice aggregate.

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barberrian

#52: Post by barberrian »

The 2 oz shot pulled in 1 1/2 minutes above was from 16.56 grams of filtered for espresso. I used some of what I had left from yesterday.
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samuellaw178
Team HB

#53: Post by samuellaw178 » replying to barberrian »

That's very interesting indeed. Didn't you get some bitter/smokey taste from that long pull? At least that's what I would expect..Even when I am pulling lungo, I wouldn't go more than 1 minute, they would start tasting worse to me beyond that point.

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AssafL

#54: Post by AssafL »

samuellaw178 wrote:If the brew is refracted, I am almost confident you can extract a higher extraction yield % without tasting overextracted (ie. unsifted brew that tasted best at 20% will now taste best at 22%EY sifted). Granted, you would chuck away the fines, and more work is involved. But may be the brew will taste richer and sweeter since you're including more of the desired flavour and less of the unwanted? Whether it's worth it remains to be seen, I am just itching to receive mine - tracking info doesn't tell me anything useful about my parcel's whereabout. :cry:
I am actually of the though that it is almost diametrically the opposite - that the fines will get you the high EY without bitterness.

If you look at the grind curve of most grinders it is very much the same - yet some extract much higher and some vastly lower. Part of it is burr alignment and sharpness making less fines for sure - but in the new "craft and science of coffee" book they cover a lot about the topic of normalization of the grinds after grinding (consider the uniformity of Nespresso pulls for an idea of how normalization affects pull quality - they specifically mention capsule performance).

So for "practicalities" to work well one would need to decide what percentage of fines are needed, how to break the fine agglomerates, and how to recombine the fines with the bigger particles. It stands to reason that a sieve will do this as a "by product" - but not by removing the fines - but by ensuring all fines are fixed to larger particles and removing only the leftover, and unbound fines. So shake well and vigorously...

I wrote my conclusions from reading the chapter below (a bit theoretical though).
Normalization Quality, Grinders and Coffee Grinds
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

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AssafL

#55: Post by AssafL »

samuellaw178 wrote:That's very interesting indeed. Didn't you get some bitter/smokey taste from that long pull? At least that's what I would expect..Even when I am pulling lungo, I wouldn't go more than 1 minute, they would start tasting worse to me beyond that point.
90 seconds for a light roast Gesha is a bit long - but not too long - given a long pre-infusion and fine grind. I've done similar (albeit 70-80 seconds is usually the most I ever pull even with long pre-infusions).

To me 2-4 minutes seemed long since it either means choked flow (zero permeability puck, zero percolation) or the "alternative fact" meant some flow and almost any flow at 4 minutes would result in severe over-extraction (bitter/ashy/astringent etc.). Not the same as a 20-30 second preinfusion and a 60-70 second pull.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

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AssafL

#56: Post by AssafL »

barberrian wrote:@AssafL - good advice, Thanks. I read a thread where it was suggested that different beans would extract best at different temperatures.
If you immerse yourself a bit in the theory behind the pulls - a higher temp will yield a higher extraction yield (the amount of coffee that was dissolved into the drink). Higher yields are usually more bitter, lower yields more sour (as some flavor compounds dissolve earlier than others).
I'm right on the edge of sour with the Pavoni if I don't hit the edge the shot is very good. I'll cut back to 2 ounces on the X3 tonight.
Maybe you mean "bitter"? They are sometimes tricky to tell apart.
My technique developed over years by trial and error.
We all did. In the 90's I got my first Gaggia. I remember clicking the motor on and off for a sequence (I knew it was better coffee - I had no idea why back then).

When I stumbled upon HB - the good people on this forum helped me become better - and more uniform in my quest. Furthermore, they helped me realize how to identify the problems and resolve (otherwise you can go nuts with all the variables).
My handle barberrian adopted from the barberry bushes that grow wild on the coastal hills that surround my house, and then there's the barbary coast in San Francisco, no relation to the one in Africa. I'm not a barbarian but I do eat with a fork and knife which I read would qualify me as one in certain parts of China. So I maintain some competence with chop sticks in case I visit there.
I do sincerely apologize for calling you a barbarian. It was too tongue in cheek.

Also - the reference was intended for the pull itself - not you. I do believe the pull could be better (for sure) even if you found a sweet-spot that works for you. (as an example - it would be very hard for me to set up the GS/3 to do what you are doing at 19-22% EY. I can do 120 second pulls - Perhaps if I drop the pressure by 60-70%; or do other things that will mean it is no longer espresso)
Tonight I ground 20g of beans and used 350um for the fines, 900um for the boulders and weighed the sifted coffee:
5.97 boulders
14.08 for espresso
.26 fines
The 2 oz shot pulled in 1 1/2 minutes. My 1 cc taste after the shot was excellent and enhance the coffee flavor and had a quich finish. My jaded impression perhaps the best shot I've tasted from this Geisha. The latte seemed to enhance the floral flavor. Overall a nice experience. My wife said she wouldn't want it stronger. I was thinking that it was a good base for a mocha, or maybe a smaller cup. I'll try this same technique for the grind again tomorrow.
As others noted - you may try even shorter pull 60-70 seconds. Perhaps filter a few more fines, grind coarser or pre-infuse a bit longer.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

CathyWeeks

#57: Post by CathyWeeks »

EvanOz85 wrote:I don't understand the whole deal with calibrating the grinder for the Kruve at all. Are they wanting us to use one grind size for all brewing methods and just change the sleeves accordingly? That doesn't make any sense to me at all as some methods require significantly coarser/finer grinds. The purpose of "calibration" is not explained at all.
I think others have done a good job explaining the calibration - but I've got something to add - it allows you to evaluate your grinders.

For instance, I have a Porlex, a LIDO 2 (with newer burrs), and a Handground grinder. Buy evaluating the grinders at each grind setting, you can see which one does the best job (ie, the greatest amount of grinds at the intended size, and least amount of boulders and fines). Some grinders do better than others at different settings, so you might use the Kruve to determine which grinder does best for one kind of coffee, and which for other types.

CathyWeeks

#58: Post by CathyWeeks »

Oh, and I'm holding my Kruve in my lap. It JUST arrived. :-)

jaredw

#59: Post by jaredw »

I just tried a brew at their recommended 400-800 for filter. It brewed way too slow ended up with about a 4:15 extraction following matt pergers recipe (As it tends to prefer a little finer), the resulting cup was very over extracted. It seems off to me. Wish i had some higher micron sleeves to try adjust.

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barberrian

#60: Post by barberrian »

2 ounce shot for 2 single 1 ounce lattes.
Tonight I pulled a 2oz shot in 70 seconds. I used 16.55 grams for espresso, 900um to 350um filters again. The pre-infusion was doubled to 30 seconds. The puck was dripping wet before the pull. I tasted a cc at the tail end after the shot. Very tasty. Cedar forest did have a hint of smoke, sugar and sweet. The finish lingered. I don't think I let the smoke out of the forest or the bean. No smoke out of the vibrating pump either. I tamped this shot hard. This geisha was roasted a bit dark. I'm not a roaster but would guess first crack.
The latte was great. We had it with a shared apple dumpling and vanilla ice cream. The last few sips were like tiramisu- translation " heaven in your mouth ". More was less. The 1 ounce of espresso had all the concentrated flavor needed for a very good drink. I did cut down on the milk a bit from what I did last night.
I've only been amused, enlightened, and helped by your comments. Thank you. Great experience.
The Kruve filter set a very good tool. A lot to learn when there's this new variable that can enhance the the whole spectrum in your aggregate. It is fun to think about.

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LMWDP #565