Kopi Deva single-dose grinder - Page 13

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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#121: Post by CoffeeBrain »

It's been a little while since there were posts on the Deva with the SSP Lab Sweet burrs so I wanted to check in to see if anyone has had better luck using that combo. These burrs fit in nicely with my current grinders and I really love the Kopi Deva design but don't want a grinder that isn't suited for espresso as that will be my primary use for it.

@otaibimn and @naz1511: Do you know if you have the V1 or V2 SSP Lab Sweet burrs? I was reading on that thread about people getting too many fines and having trouble grinding fine enough to achieve 9Bar with the V1 burrs. It also seems that both the V1 & V2 drastically improve with heavy seasoning (5-15kg!).

It just seems odd to me that a well aligned Deva with seasoned SSP Lab Sweet burrs couldn't perform the same as a DF64....there are some unsolved mysteries in coffee though and this may be one of them.

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#122: Post by naz1511 replying to CoffeeBrain »

Mine is definitely the V2 due to the labeling of the stationary and rotary burr. Kopi Concepts actually recommended not to use the cast for espresso (quote: produces too much fines) but I went against it and tried it myself. Perhaps more seasoning is needed, and perhaps on a hindsight, certain traditional espresso recipes had to be tweaked to get along with cast's characteristics on the deva. Right now the cast is on my DF64 and I enjoyed the coffee out of it.

You brought up a good point where logically burrs shouldnt perform drastically different from ginder to grinder, as I am trying to make sense of it myself. Espresso was slightly 'thicker' on the deva with the cast. Perhaps the differences are due to the following factors:

1) DF64 has wiper to chute design / Deva relies mostly off centrifugal force for grounds exit
2) DF64 favors hot loading beans technique / Deva recommends cold-start loading beans (ala niche)
3) Bellow / Non-bellow

When I grind on the DF64, i usually dose 0.5g extra as I didn't want to bellow out the remainder fearing all the regrinding/fines to get in the puck. The deva would be off by 0.1g or 0.0g off the dose, nullifying the need to dose extra.

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#123: Post by CoffeeBrain »

Thanks for the details naz1511.

Yeah, you definitely have the V2 then. Glad for you but was kind of hoping you had V1 and the updated burrs would easily fix it.

Good theories about the possible differences. I can certainly see the retention in the DF64 as helping to reduce fines. I actually use my fellow Ode in the same manner; no RDT and hope for maximum static for reduction of fines and chaff. Then before my next brew I'll use the knocker to send those little bits straight to the knock box.

May just grab a DF64/DF64P with the Lab Sweet burrs while waiting for a Deva with SSP Multipurpose and then can have both burr options. With my trusted old niche as my full body choice I'll be covered for all the different espresso styles.

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#124: Post by Frenchman »

How are people feeling about their Deva purchase? Inspired by this post by Odyssey Espresso I would love to get one if it's a good grinder... but I also wonder about the lead times as it's only available for preorder for Q4 2023 (a year from now). That seems like quite a long timeline given that they just produced and shipped for their crowd funding campaigns... I'd have thought they would move out of the preorder model or at least have much faster timelines.

Edit... It's pricy now, too. ~$900 with Super Jolly burrs and ~$1,100 with SSP burrs (incl. shipping from the UK for £100 ~ $110). That's the price of a Zerno, though nobody knows what that will perform like at this point. But that seems expensive, especially with one year before delivery, "estimated" :(
LMWDP #712

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#125: Post by malling replying to Frenchman »

The Zerno has no RPM control so isn't as clear cut, also zerno not available and only god knows when it will be for none US citizens, it could be a year it could be two it might never see the light of day.

The price also largely depends on where you live, importing things from outside Europe is very high we aren't just talking a $100 we are talking $200-400 so for European the Deva is still noticeable cheaper. So I'm not surprised it levels it out the other direction as you have no VAT to battle with.

The Acaia also seem to be earliest available sometime next year but again 2024 for none US is probably not unrealistic either.

The p64 is also first Q2023 but not in the states.

Really unless you buy a DF64(p) then you won't get it before 2023 at the earliest.

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#126: Post by Frenchman »

Yes I am talking about US availability.

I have seen people mention retention issues with the Deva on EAF, but can't find info beyond that. And the feeding of the beans look difficult (something I also worry about about my still not delivered Weber Key). I do like the open chimney shipping of the Zerno, but in any case... my question is about what Deva users found, and what isn't working (retention being the biggest concern).
LMWDP #712

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#127: Post by p4lxrich »

been reading this thread quite a few times as i'm debating in taking over someone's order for Q1 23 delivery. i liked and wanted the idea of variable rpm. is that feature alone make this a good candidate compared to other 64mm grinders? i currently have a df64 and i hate the cleaning/modifying process so i wanted something easier to use with no modifications and the idea of variable rpm. i am worried that i love my ssp mp burrs which it seems like it's not very good with this grinder . is the stock burr make this lower than my current df64 , lower meaning not as good taste wise? im guessing workflow is better which helps. i would probably try the ssp hu as that seems like what people like with this grinder.

also, regarding swapping burrs/cleaning. from what i read it seems like it's pretty easy as long as you know the orientation of how the burr is attached. i was a bit confused on some of the description on this. is the lower burr/upper burr opposite of what other grinders are? just trying to see how some people had issues. knowing myself i might have this problem. haha

also is there an issue with oak/white options? i havent seen that combo yet or least just me.

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#128: Post by kaffalover »

Hi guys, just read the Kickstarter update...

The remaining grinders from this campaign will be built and shipped soon (mine included :D :D :D ).
What are the owners thinking of this grinder after a few months of usage?
Any additional comments about the ssp HU and Cast burss with the Deva could help me

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#129: Post by Meggerud »

Can anyone share their user experience with the Kopi Deva?

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#130: Post by Grizzley »

It's been a bit of a mixed bag for me (and I don't mean a blend). I've had mine for maybe 6 months now, I am an original kickstarter supporter. When it works well, I am very happy with the results, the experience from the cup. But I've had quite a lot of hassles with retention, mostly in the funnel. Regardless of bean, there is always a bit of retention in the funnel. In my experience, more retention from less dense beans, but always a little. After a few shots, it does stabilize at "zero" retention, 20g in, 20g out, but there is always coffee in the funnel. I believe that the left over grinds are 'static', meaning once they get stuck, they stay put, and new grinds do pass thru 100%, but I could be wrong. Pic at the end. So, once stable, it's quite nice. But if you want to change beans, time to start all over again, makes dialing in that much more of a pain in the ass. Prepare to be frustrated.

The motor spins 2 plastic zip ties, "wipers", to sweep the funnel. These are literally zip ties you can buy at any hardware store, $1,99 a pack of 50, and then cut to size to replace. Seems like the whole "zero retention" is based on this component. For a machine designed by an F1 mechanic, seems odd to rely so heavily on this.

At mid speed, which i think is 700 rpm or so, 4-5g of coffee drop out once you stop the motor. Then you need to start and stop it again 3-4 times to get the rest, but if stable, you do get all you put in. At low rpm, no grinds drop out, but you do need to start and stop it even more times to complete the grind. And retention is worse at low rpm. In my experience.

It looks great, to me, and the build is nice and hefty, and the battery is great! One less cable, and it lasts a long time, I've no concerns there. I like that part a lot. And it's a nice size, more compact than it looks from the pix. Swapping the burrs is really easy, if you want to go that way.

What else? The dosing cup, brush and shovel are all great. The portafilter holder is ridiculously bad, don't waste your money, and the dosing cup holder is also a waste of time, comes loose after 1 grind. I flip a coffee cup upside down and stand the dosing cup on that. Get close to the funnel exit as the grinds can spray...

The Kopi team is very responsive and more or less helpful. Their email help is a bit like their Kickstarter updates. They use 100 words when 10 will do. The info you need is in buried in the 4th paragraph. When you don't have good news, distract them.... they do a lot of "hey, look over here"... ;)

PS: I just use it for espresso and espresso drinks - I have another grinder for pour overs.