Knob Coffee Grinder (Kickstarter) - Page 7

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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#61: Post by HB »

SoF wrote:...I wondered why other forum members and their associates who have an obvious financial interest in particular topics (hand lever machines, etc.) do not systematically receive the same treatment
If you want to discuss site policy, please start a thread in the Suggestion Box. Or, if you have specific concerns about the handling of site policy by me or one of the moderators that you don't want to discuss publicly, you're welcome to contact me offline.

Some quick administrative notes:

The site's Guidelines for productive online discussion explains how we handle disputes. Vendor participation in the forums and What about friends, insiders, promoters, and influencers? elaborates on guidelines for vendors and vendor-adjacent members.

Unfortunately, sometimes a new member joins solely to promote their product. For obvious cases like spammers, they're banned without warning. For those who may have simply overlooked the guidelines and terms of service, we give a warning. If they ignore that warning, then we may edit/delete their posts as necessary, or ban them, depending on the circumstances. For example, creating multiple logins to circumvent a temporary ban is a sure way to get permanently banned.

It's worth noting that the moderators don't vet every post. Honestly, who has the time to read 150-200 posts per day? Consequently, many moderator actions are prompted by user reports. It's my suspicion that moderators and established members recognize the potentially different motivations between a "day 1" member versus one with a long site history -- and are more likely to report a violation by the former.

This thread is on a short cooldown to encourage contributors to read the above. :D
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#62: Post by CathyWeeks »

SoF wrote:...and since they are getting about 10 times more money than they needed I expected that they would not only have this new burr set made but that they would also fix some design issues (including a more robust handle which many complained about, perhaps a second ball bearing, etc.). ....What are they going to do with all that money if not what they said they would?
10 times more orders doesn't necessarily translate to 10 times more money to play with. The extra money is likely going to mostly be absorbed by the creation of the extra units that people ordered. Kickstarters often seem to do a poor job figuring out those margins. Don't get me wrong - I too would prefer a CW motion. And they answered my question that turning it is more like turning a Lido2 and that their crank length should make it OK. We'll see.

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#63: Post by ira »

It's not that similar a motion, but I use my Apex both left and right handed and feel perfectly comfortable turning it in either direction with either hand. Mine doesn't have the auger installed so direction doesn't matter. I would guess that once it arrives and you use it for a day or two, the direction might not matter so much.



#64: Post by Pressino »

I don't understand how changing hands will change the grinding direction, unless I'm missing something about the design of the Apex burrs. If they grind clockwise they should do so regardless of which hand holds the grinder body. You can get some idea of how it feels to turn the handle CW or CCW with an empty grinder, but the experience of resistance while actually grinding coffee is more important. The only way to really assess how CCW feels compared to CW grinding is to actually grind coffee with the two types of burr sets of the same size but mirror geometry.

What's at issue is the ergonomics of right versus left handed manipulation of tools. For some symmetric tools, like hammers, it makes little difference and they can be manipulated equally well by right and left handed users. Others, like screws and scissors are not equivalent...that's why conventional screws are driven clockwise and scissors are set up to work better for right handers. It's a matter of neurology (the way the brain is wired) and musculoskeletal anatomy (the arrangement of joints and the muscles of the upper extremities that move them). I'm a neurologist and this is a particular interest of mine.

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#65: Post by SteveRhinehart »

The Apex uses ghost tooth burrs which have no set drive direction. You can run CW or CCW just as effectively. Presumably Ira is saying that switching hands also goes with switching drive direction, for example by having the push stroke be at the top of the rotation and the pull at the bottom no matter which hand is used.

I'm also unsure of why a reverse drive would be "disastrous" for right handers. I've done it many times before with hand grinders to clear clogs or in certain cases to grind coffee. For Knock grinders, 'grinding' in reverse is how you would change your grind setting more coarsely. I'm right handed, and it never once felt strange or awkward for me to simply reverse the direction of the rotation. What does feel awkward is switching my hand placement and driving the handle with my left hand. I can really only speak for myself when I say that it's a little surprising to see this being perceived as much of a problem at all.

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#66: Post by TenLayers »

Yes, the rotation "problem" is surprising to me as well. I see people are actually canceling their Kickstarter pledges over it. To me it just seems to be much ado about nothing.


#67: Post by cafebmw »

Pressino wrote:That was my main criticism of this grinder. As I wrote earlier, it may make it great for left-handed users, but is an ergonomic problem (i.e. disaster) for right-handers. If they really aren't going to use burrs that allow CW grinding, Knob may want to market this for lefties, who constitute about 10% of the general population. It may be that they miscalculated just how much it would cost to mass produce mirror-image burrs when they made their claim (as they did right here on this forum) that the market version of the CCW prototype grinder would grind CW. :(
"A disaster for right-handers"!
are you serious??? there is no difference in ergonomics, the muscle loads and vectors are the same, ccw or cw.
if your brain has problems to process the ccw motion, that seems to be rather a personal problem.
what, you write numbers and letters with loops/half-loops always strictly in cw direction?
what about driving? you only make right turns???

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#68: Post by HB »

cafebmw wrote:if your brain has problems to process the ccw motion, that seems to be rather a personal problem.
I see more than one contravention of the site's Guidelines for productive online discussion in your post. Let's give this thread a rest for the weekend. :roll:
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#69: Post by LewBK »

Pretty funny article about this grinder mentioning its problematic branding in the UK: ... -grinding/
A special, "censored" version of the Knob grinder upon which the name will appear as the *No* Axle Grinder will also be offered to users in the United Kingdom, where the grinder's name presents a double entendre that has resulted in a flurry of online jokes.


#70: Post by canatto »

Obviously, the censored version is targeting those who know exactly what they are buying.