New Kinu grinders

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
bas
Posts: 129
Joined: Sep 27, 2009, 2:30 pm

Postby bas » Sep 20, 2016, 2:58 pm

I have hands on experience with many good hand grinder like the Lido E, Hausgrind, Comandante Mk3, OE Pharos, Mahlgut and HG One. Now I would like to introduce two very interesting new hand grinders. Meet the Kinu line!

The Kinu M47: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1798784433736470.1073741830.1797322603882653&type=3

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(Thanks to my coffee friend Bobbee for making this unboxing video!)

And the Kinu M68: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1798766017071645.1073741829.1797322603882653&type=3

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A couple of weeks ago I watched some youtube movies showing the prototypes. I then got in contact with the moderator of the Romanian coffee forum (Liviu Fratila) who has been testing these grinders thorougly. The members of the Romanian coffee forum have been giving feedback to the manufacturer during the development of both grinders. Liviu gave me more details and brought me in contact with the manufacturer. And so it happens that I am looking now at two amazing grinders on my kitchen countertop!

Both are excellent grinders. In my opinion the Kinu grinders are not just "me too" grinders but rather unique in their kind. Material choice, build quality and precision alignment (they have a very interesting bearing construction to guarantee extremely tight tolerances) are as good as it can get.

Let me start with the M47: It is a very solid piece of stainless steel. The used burr set is a 47 mm conical from Italmill. Hence Kinu M47. They claim tolerances of just 0.02 mm. Even at much finer than espresso grind I get zero burr rub. So I am convinced. Grind adjustment is stepless and does not slip. Just turn the dial + or -. It has a mark to remeber settings. The touch and feel is great and a nice feature for me is the thumb rest. It really helps to stablise the grinder in use. The grinder is in my opinion not only very suitable for slow coffee but a serious espresso grinder as well. It is quite easy to grind with it in the espresso range. Until now my favourite hand grinder for slow coffee is the Comandante MK3. My preliminary conclusion is that the M47 is at least as good. Of course everything is subjective but for me the Kinu M47 is the best package at the moment. It would be nice to compare it with either the Helor 101 and Bravo mini but I do not have or had one of these in my hands. The European price for the M47 is 249 euro's (19% VAT included). Launchprice will be 209 Euro. So slighly over the Lido and Comandante in my country (The Netherlands). Reasonable given it's superior fit and finish and more expensive material use. My coffee friend Bobbee is planning to share his experiences with this piece soon on this forum as well. He has written a nice review on the Dutch forum already:

http://koffiepraat.nl/forum/viewtopic.phpf=8&t=7472.

Over to the M68. As one might expect it has a 68 mm conical burr set. Again from Italmill. It's from their "Food Friendly" line. These burrs should last longer than average and give (certified) no contamination. I do not think that contamination is a problem with other burrs by the way. As with the M47 alignment is just perfect. Again no burr rub in the sub espresso range. And the vertical cranking arm turns very smooth. A rather unique feature is it's "gear box". Unlike other hand grinder it has a 2.4:1 in stead of 1:1 transmission. This translates in easier turning without suffering too much on speed. I have noticed that I need considerably less effort with this Kinu compared to the Mahlgut (great grinder as well!). Especially at the beginning. I find the Mahlgut quite challenging to start up. Regarding speed: For my Strietman CT1 I typically grind 15 grams in about 20-25 turns (without seasoning the burrs properly yet). Quick enough. On flat surfaces the grinder can slide a bit so I have ordered the Amble2 antislip mat Erik has suggested for the HG One. But I have no trouble to stabilise it so far without an anti slip mat. Just use the free left hand for some down force. Nice details are the magnetic funnel holder and the magnet holding the grounds bin on it's place. Grind setting is stepless of course. And size is pretty small. Much lower than the HG One for instance. The M68 costs 649 euro's (19% VAT included). Launchprice will be 599 Euro. That is significantly cheaper than the HG One and Mahlgut. At least in the Netherlands.

After one week of heavy use I really like these grinders. I am getting great extractions with both of them. Just some RDT to get rid of static and an even and fluffy grind is guaranteed. No clumps. The M68 is even more fluffy than the M47. No signs of channeling or Spritzers whatsoever and I am not using any mixing or shaking devices. For me they are the prefect hand grinders. Regarding taste: Too early to draw definate conclusions. Both make up for a great cup. Shots with the M68 tend to be a bit brighter in comparison with the M47.

The Kinu 47 is for sale already and on stock. A new series of their M68 is almost finished. Their website is still under constuction but will be launched soon (one or two weeks from now).

http://www.kinugrinders.com

Meanwhile you can find more info on their facebook page and contacting Kinu is possible via info@kinugrinders.com. I have found their customer service to be very polite and extremely helpful. They are so passionate and proud about their products. Rightly so!

By the way in their line up of grinders there is the Kinu M38 as well. It shares the same 38 mm conical burr set seen in many other hand grinders ( Lido 1, Hausgrind, Feldgrind, Rosco and Bravo mini). I have no personal experience with this one yet. But given their focus on tight tolerances and quality control and the proven track record of this burr set I have no doubt it will be a fine grinder as well. Price: 182 Euro.

All the best to all!

Bas

PS. Many thanks to Liviu, Cosmin and mister Biernatek from Kinu for their patient help!

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CoffeeBar
Posts: 652
Joined: Jul 03, 2014, 7:39 am

Postby CoffeeBar » Sep 21, 2016, 6:25 am

Thank you for the post. I like The Kinu M68, hopefully more review coming up soon( Especially in burrs alignment ) :D

bas
Posts: 129
Joined: Sep 27, 2009, 2:30 pm

Postby bas » Sep 21, 2016, 6:34 am

Yes I will try to explain more about their design, bearings and alignment soon. And how that translates in tight tolerances.

I have no degree in mechanics but for me zero burr rub is convincing enough. Perhaps not for everyone.

To be continued.

Neuromancer
Posts: 50
Joined: Aug 04, 2016, 8:23 am

Postby Neuromancer » Sep 21, 2016, 6:39 am

i use kinu 47 daily. i'm not an expert in grinders but i can tell it's a very high quality product for a decent price. i like the result in the cup more than my former grinder, macap mc4 but they are very different products ( electric vs manual flat vs conical). when i'll get my hands on the 68 version i'll try to see if there is any difference in the cup to the 47. also had the 38 version for a couple of days and was pleased with it too

one1speed
Posts: 78
Joined: Oct 06, 2015, 2:55 pm

Postby one1speed » Sep 21, 2016, 9:37 am

Very cool, they both look great. Would love to see a video of the 68mm burr version, find that piece very intriguing.

bobbee
Posts: 31
Joined: Dec 08, 2013, 1:29 pm

Postby bobbee » Sep 21, 2016, 6:13 pm

Well, here is my part of the experience... :D
I've been using the M47 since 30th of august and I can say I'm very happy with this grinder! I would also like to share all the answers I've got from kinu before and after I bought the grinder. For handgrinders I've had a Lido E, commandante MK3, Mahlgut MG1 and all these grinders had something I didn't like. Now I use a Tidaka CB1 for espresso and the Kinu M47 for mostly filter coffee and now and then an espresso. It's doing both great! I really have no problem recommending anyone who is in the running for a decent (travel) hand grinder to buy the Kinu M47 above all others on the market today.
To name a view of the specs: 0,75mm grind settings thread(!), double bearing(not the basic oilite), all precision parts in stainless steel, thumb knob for torque assistance which really works, the outer burr is conically polished at exterior - 47mm to fit the tube.....etc.

Check this clip I received from Kinu concerning tolerance of the SS tube:


Every part just fits like a glove!



(For anyone who's suggesting, I have no commercial belongings with Kinu in any way! I just love it when a good product arrives and think anyone should know of. That's also why I've made the vids. Same goes fort Bas ofcourse. :wink: )

bas
Posts: 129
Joined: Sep 27, 2009, 2:30 pm

Postby bas » Sep 22, 2016, 4:06 am

And in this video you can see a tolerance test of the M68 as well....


Lyvyoo
Posts: 43
Joined: Apr 14, 2009, 5:03 pm

Postby Lyvyoo » Sep 22, 2016, 5:22 pm

In the last video the grinder is electric not manual, the future version of M68. But We don't hear any sound :) 0 db when the motor is on, with no beans. It's this real?! :)
On Espressoman.ro/forum, the Romanian espresso Community, we have the honor to reach every news about this project patented, directly from the german - romanian factory, but for now the electric model is just a prototype, alpha level. M68 is final beta :) M47 is probably the first real competitor for Lido E and Comandante MK3. M68 want to be a HG One / Pharos killer. We will see, after the international reviews from kaffee-netz, koffiepraat, maybe HB, prokofe.ru etc.

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AssafL
Posts: 1249
Joined: Jan 03, 2010, 6:00 pm

Postby AssafL » Sep 24, 2016, 2:24 am

Not to pour water on a the jubilation but one of the problems with grinders is that during the development stage it is rather easy for a good machinist to get amazing tolerances. I would ask the manufacturer not how they align the prototype - but how they intend to ensure alignment in production.

The problem seems to be that after the prototype(s) are complete and it moves from the manual "mill and lathe it until perfect" to a serial production of parts, at which case tolerances in the bearings, in the burrs, in the surface finish quality, even in how well individual spindles are kept from the mill to final assembly (the horror of a bucket full of precision parts vs. individual parts laying in egg-cartons) - has a bearing on the final result.

These production errors are too miniscule to have any effect - but they are multiplied by each other. So you end up with a grinder that needs alignment.

Now one can always do Swiss watch surface finish (at least of mating surfaces) and use FAG precision bearings (which cost a fortune) - but at that point you end up with a Titus grinder at a Titus price. Or you can make the grinder "align-able" - like most accessible burr grinders (which needs expertise) or EG-1 like grinders.

(NB - Not that a good Lever/Dial Indicator YouTube film isn't cool - TESA makes really cool products! - just that the Koombiah of precision dial indicators needs to be translated to the production floor. It may seem easy but many machinists will tell you it isn't. Looking at the first film - merely getting the tube aligned and centered properly on the lathe's dividing attachment takes time and care - which may be okay during prototyping but prohibitively expensive during production).
Caution! Water, heat, pressure and electricity don't mix! I want an espresso.

bobbee
Posts: 31
Joined: Dec 08, 2013, 1:29 pm

Postby bobbee » Sep 24, 2016, 3:34 am

Yes, that is something to think about. For what I know they have precision parts and non-precision parts. I'm not in the position to really judge the claims since I'm not technically skilled in this knowledge but I know the tube is precise part and the big burr is conicly polished on the outside by italmill so it always fits straight in the tube. Also the axle is a precise part with the bearings and holders. The manufacturer also has 25 years experience with all kind of grinders...they know what they're doing I guess. Also they are very open in communicating about all there technique etc..
So what amazed me was that the grinder has zero burr rub, even very close to zero where the burrs almost touch each other. You can see it in one of my YouTube clips where i spin the grinder on this fine setting. Beside that tastewise it does a really good job. I keep using my Tidaka cb1 for espresso but tried the M47 and it really is a decent espresso grinder.

 
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