New Kinu grinders - Page 25

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
bas (original poster)
Posts: 374
Joined: 15 years ago

#241: Post by bas (original poster) »

I called Christian Biernatek from Kinu yesterday and had a very nice conversation with him. They are very busy to launch their grinders end website before the end of this year. One of the reasons for the delay is that they have been improving their grinders once again. These are the changes:

The M47 will get a new black corrosion resistent burrs. The new stainless steel grounds bin will get a magnetic in stead of screwed locking mechanism. The screw-thread on the previous design could be damaged with (brutal) force. The new design should be idiot proof and very practical in use. The M47 will definitely be back for sale this year.

The biggest change in the new M68 will be a stainless steel sphere in stead of an aluminium one like before. It will be made from one solid piece. The stainless is much more scratch resistent compared to the softer aluminium. Also the base plate will be made of another material in the future. The funnel will be a one piece design from now on. Their are a couple of smaller changes as well. It is not sure if they can sell the new M68 this year. Might be early 2018.

Kinu is still only a two person company. Father and son. Basically they are doing everything: Research and development, production, quality control, sales and marketing, customer service, exhibitions, social media etc. They know there customer service could have been better and that the delay has been quite long. But they are working very hard. In the end they are very passionate and doing their best to make high quality products. Their focus has been more on continious product improvement than satisfying new customers. They have promised me that they are working to improve that as well.

jfdana
Posts: 19
Joined: 6 years ago

#242: Post by jfdana »

I've had a Kinu M68 for three months now, and it is working very well.

At the same time, it is discouraging to read that they have been selling beta versions at full price without disclosing that fact. On the one hand I've had the use of the grinder which really does work well. On the other, it is not the production model which will have significant improvements.

I do hope that, as an unsuspecting beta tester, they offer upgrades to the final production grinder at a reasonable price. As we all know, when changing equipment, getting a reasonable price for what we are selling is important, and having a beta model, since improved significantly (stainless vs. aluminum, other unspecified changes), just kills the resale value.

Time will tell.

jtrops
Posts: 499
Joined: 9 years ago

#243: Post by jtrops replying to jfdana »

I can understand this perspective, but I don't necessarily share the premise that these are "beta." It's more like there have been rolling updates, and that all of the grinders so far have been production versions. I have heard from a camera repairman that Canon does rolling updates on their cameras based on returns. Would you say that Canon cameras are in "beta?"

I don't really care about the resale value of my m47, but I think you nailed that. If the current production is enough different from the past version there is definitely a hit in resale value. In my case I'm not going to munch the threads of my grinder, but I would like the ability to replace my burrs one day with whatever is current at the time. Burr replacement is a long, long way off at the moment.

randyh
Posts: 267
Joined: 8 years ago

#244: Post by randyh »

jfdana wrote:I've had a Kinu M68 for three months now, and it is working very well.

At the same time, it is discouraging to read that they have been selling beta versions at full price without disclosing that fact. On the one hand I've had the use of the grinder which really does work well. On the other, it is not the production model which will have significant improvements.

I do hope that, as an unsuspecting beta tester, they offer upgrades to the final production grinder at a reasonable price. As we all know, when changing equipment, getting a reasonable price for what we are selling is important, and having a beta model, since improved significantly (stainless vs. aluminum, other unspecified changes), just kills the resale value.

Time will tell.
Just FYI, I believe the price for the production model M68 will jump up to $950, which is a $151 price hike from the previous $799. So in a way you got a discounted price for an aluminum casing instead of stainless. At first I was discouraged to see such a big price increase for the M68, but now I see it is justified, as manufacturing things out of stainless is much more difficult and costly than aluminium but for me worth it for the extra corrosion resistance and long term durability.

bas (original poster)
Posts: 374
Joined: 15 years ago

#245: Post by bas (original poster) »

I do hope that, as an unsuspecting beta tester
Nope. They are just continiously improving their products based on customers feedback...

Mbb
Posts: 465
Joined: 6 years ago

#246: Post by Mbb »

jfdana wrote:I've had a Kinu M68 for three months now, and it is working very well.

At the same time, it is discouraging to read that they have been selling beta versions at full price without disclosing that fact. On the one hand I've had the use of the grinder which really does work well. On the other, it is not the production model which will have significant improvements.

I do hope that, as an unsuspecting beta tester, they offer upgrades to the final production grinder at a reasonable price. As we all know, when changing equipment, getting a reasonable price for what we are selling is important, and having a beta model, since improved significantly (stainless vs. aluminum, other unspecified changes), just kills the resale value.

Time will tell.
Well, let's be real they didn't really offer anything for sale yet. Except espresso Forge did carry them.

People beat a path to their door and said "sell it to me now".

Yeah they made improvements but it's not like they were selling up bugged up version that had problems. Every manufacturer improves products overtime.

jfdana
Posts: 19
Joined: 6 years ago

#247: Post by jfdana »

Well, as to "continuously improving," I hope they at least take time out for lunch.

Regarding the camera analogy, companies absolutely do make improvements, but they release new lenses in discrete, well announced in advance, models that are easily identified by model # and year of release. The advance publicity and promised improvements allow one to make an informed decision about purchasing.

Kinu has chosen to behave differently. Would I have waited to spent an extra $150 for a stainless vs. aluminum body? Probably yes. Am I satisfied with my M 68: also yes.

I would have been helpful if they had acted less haphazardly, but such was not to be.

maxbmello
Posts: 510
Joined: 10 years ago

#248: Post by maxbmello »

Funny to me that we are comparing a 2 person company that handles ALL aspects of the business with a multi million (or billion) dollar company like cannon. Speaks well in regards to their quality, and customer loyalty I suppose.

The first (spherical) version of the 68 had 2 support posts, later upgraded to 3 along with a different gear ratio. Now they are switching to SS. Not really a big deal to me, considering how great this grinder has been, esp at the lower price of aluminum. No issues with scratches on mine, and besides - they offer a 10 year warranty, so maybe don't worry so much about being a perceived beta tester, and enjoy some delicious coffee using this fabulous grinder.

Cheers

Mbb
Posts: 465
Joined: 6 years ago

#249: Post by Mbb »

On the m47

Corrosion of burrs.....non even a thing.
They will discolor (surface oxidize) if you spray water on beans .

Magnetic attachment....sounds iffy.
I would think magnetic attached cup will be prone to separate "suddenly" when removing, with a jarring motion that might spill grind from a full cup. That is unless great care is taken or significant overlapping surfaces . Im sure whatever they do, it will be done well though. I separate my cup slowly, due to not wanting small amount of fines /chaff clinging to inside to go all over counter

I like the threads, but they is a bit fine.

pavel
Posts: 51
Joined: 7 years ago

#250: Post by pavel »

jfdana wrote:I've had a Kinu M68 for three months now, and it is working very well.

At the same time, it is discouraging to read that they have been selling beta versions at full price without disclosing that fact. On the one hand I've had the use of the grinder which really does work well. On the other, it is not the production model which will have significant improvements.

I do hope that, as an unsuspecting beta tester, they offer upgrades to the final production grinder at a reasonable price. As we all know, when changing equipment, getting a reasonable price for what we are selling is important, and having a beta model, since improved significantly (stainless vs. aluminum, other unspecified changes), just kills the resale value.

Time will tell.
It's not really a beta-version, is it? It's not like you got a prototype to test. They change few minor things based on a feedback. Let's assume they will produce M47 for 10 years. Each year improving something minor. Would you it's a "10 years beta testing"?

Let's assume last year they didn't have a chance to produce it in SS. This year they got offered it and said yes. Still same product, but slightly improved/changed.

Would it be easier for you to accept if they added "M47-2" "M47-3" etc? If you provide feedback, I'm sure they'll listen to you :)