New Kinu grinders - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
User avatar
peacecup

#11: Post by peacecup » Sep 24, 2016, 4:38 am

This is a really exciting development. I would love to get my hands on a 68 when they are available. Any chance of one finding it's way to Sweden soon?

RE: alignment, I would be cautiously very optimistic about the Kinu. I think the low tolerance issue has been pushed far beyond it's usefulness in espresso already. I mean, I've been making great espresso with antique hand grinders for years, and as we know these have far less precision than any of the new (good quality) hand grinders. While I applaud the pursuit of perfect alignment I doubt many mortals will ever notice the difference in espresso quality given the tolerances to which the new grinders are made.

A case in point is the incessant whining we heard about fines distributions the past 5 years. Now JimS has shown the two grinders with distinctly different approaches to fines distributions can be virtually indistinguishable for certain coffees,
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

User avatar
CoffeeBar

#12: Post by CoffeeBar » Sep 24, 2016, 4:51 am

bobbee wrote: The manufacturer also has 25 years experience with all kind of grinders
Was the manufacturer( factory ) from Romania? Thank you

User avatar
CoffeeBar

#13: Post by CoffeeBar » Sep 24, 2016, 5:02 am

peacecup wrote:
While I applaud the pursuit of perfect alignment I doubt many mortals will ever notice the difference in espresso quality given the tolerances to which the new grinders are made.
+1 or unless you're one of the boffins :P

bobbee

#14: Post by bobbee » Sep 24, 2016, 5:40 am

CoffeeBar wrote:Was the manufacturer( factory ) from Romania? Thank you
I've asked the same kind of question and this is their answer:

To understand the formation / born of the Kinugrinders :

We are a company from germany...Graef GmbH - Edelstahldesign / stainless steel design.

The company have made design's for every famous brandmarks in the world....for spice mills and coffee grinders...

Why a lot of people know about and misunderstand,, Romanian Kinu '' is because we have start the selling of the Kinu's at first in East Europe in Romania about Russia & neighbor country's by our partner - ,,daughter company'' where have made firstly the prototype's. The company in romania is a producer of Dental instrument's and spice mills.

Because we have a lot experience ( round 25 years in manufacturing ) with a lot of connections in hole world, we have selected only the best producer's at the market...

We have not start the project firstly in germany (even we produced components there ) because at this moment
(2 years ago ) we produced and designed ,,normal'' grinders for the hole mass market.

User avatar
AssafL

#15: Post by AssafL » Sep 24, 2016, 8:49 am

peacecup wrote:This is a really exciting development. I would love to get my hands on a 68 when they are available. Any chance of one finding it's way to Sweden soon?

RE: alignment, I would be cautiously very optimistic about the Kinu. I think the low tolerance issue has been pushed far beyond it's usefulness in espresso already. I mean, I've been making great espresso with antique hand grinders for years, and as we know these have far less precision than any of the new (good quality) hand grinders. While I applaud the pursuit of perfect alignment I doubt many mortals will ever notice the difference in espresso quality given the tolerances to which the new grinders are made.

A case in point is the incessant whining we heard about fines distributions the past 5 years. Now JimS has shown the two grinders with distinctly different approaches to fines distributions can be virtually indistinguishable for certain coffees,
I think the issue is far from being resolved as to what constitutes suitable alignment.

Alignment did not stem from a scientific sense of curiosity but from two orthogonal directions: those of us who lost alignment and went looking for what happened to our beloved grinders and orthogonally from the EK43 EY results. It was empirical rather than theoretical.

Alignment influences EY - that seems to be in consensus. Since no-one has shown a grinder, that when deliberately misaligned will make better espresso - it seems better alignment will always lead to better coffee. Just how much misalignment is acceptable - and at what point does diminishing returns kick in - I believe the jury is out on that one.

Also, given the momentum of the Industry - I don't think sloppy alignment is going away soon. I just think you should get what you pay for.

The vendor in this case made a point of providing filmed proof of alignment. Very nice - but to me such a film means they may be considering going after the high-end market (possibly higher than my Porlex :-). If indeed price becomes such that sloppy alignment would be a disappointment.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The first brave souls buying the product (same as with the EG1 and the monolith) will prove if those designs deserve the price tag. (And not by listening for rubbing or using feeler gauges - but flavor and EY measurements).

As for fines distribution - that whole topics reads like puckology. It is similar to the brewing tables - some old knowhow that is unclear if and what is the relevance to flavor and even body in the modern world. As a science fines distribution is missing a theoretical foundation so that the abundance of empirical measurements (of particle sizes) would be correlated to something useful - or something at all. So I don't know what to make of it (and it seems very few do...).
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

User avatar
CoffeeBar

#16: Post by CoffeeBar » Sep 27, 2016, 2:29 am

AssafL wrote:.FAG precision bearings

(NB - Not that a good Lever/Dial Indicator YouTube film isn't cool - TESA makes really cool products! - .
Thank you AssafL for this cool information. I've always though the SKF was the best bearings in the world you could find and Mitutoyo was the best dial indicator. Got to look into this two Company now :D

User avatar
AssafL

#17: Post by AssafL » Sep 27, 2016, 6:33 am

Tesa Technologies is the Swiss manufacturer.

Tesa (for some quirky Swiss-ness marketing logic) market using many "famous" brand names that they have acquired over the years like BesTest / Brown & Sharpe, Interapid, TesaTast, Compac, etc.

Machinists love the Tesa Technologies stuff, albeit many newer Mitutoyu calipers have features that many now prefer.

If you want to learn as much about calipers and indicators at a risk that you'll never be able to bring yourself to buying one you can afford (the horror of Chinese capliers): http://www.longislandindicator.com/index.html

Written by the owner it is hands-down the best site I have found for indicators, indicator repair, history, indicator philosophy (yup) and more. Somehow, a group of 2-3 people sitting alone in a warehouse in Long Island fixing 34,500 Swiss indicators must mean that something good will happen in the world.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.

JoeSventek

#18: Post by JoeSventek » Oct 01, 2016, 12:41 pm

I've had the M47 for a few days now and I must say it is the grinder I've been must satisfied with so far. So here are some of my thoughts about the M47.

Of course, the grinder ist not perfect, so let me start with some negatives (to me):
  • I do not like the look of the grinder at all (this, of course, is very subjective)
  • The catch jar is not screwed on, it rather has a gasket fitted to make it stay with the grinder. There's a channel at the grinders end where the gasket is supposed to slip in. Unfortunately this channel seems to be a little bit to wide for the used gasket. This results in the catch cup wiggling around while grinding.
  • This wiggling also results in a little gap between the upper end of the catch cup and the bottom of the grinders outer burr where some of the finer grinds tend to collect. The amount of grinds ending there is very small though.
That's about it. Those are all really minor annoyances to me.

Here's what I really like about the M47:
  • Apart from the catch cup fixating issue the grinder is really well made and feels super sturdy.
  • Changing grind settings is easy and reproducable.
  • I've never seen so well aligned burrs. Even well below espresso grind size there is zero burr rub!
  • Subjectively the resulting grind looks really consistent!
  • I made some really good cups of coffee using this grinder and a V60. A lot more tasty than what I was able to produce with my Vario with steel burrs so far.
  • It works really well with the Europiccola. Thanks to the fine thread size you can make very nuanced grind size adjustments.
  • Grinding is fast and easy enough (though I did not have the opportunity to test some really light roasts with the M47)
All in all I have the feeling this is best investment in coffee equipment I've made so far.

*Edit*
An important point I forgot to mention: Retention is practically zero which makes the M47 perfect for single dosing. Surprisingly and in total contrast to the Lido 2 I owned there are almost no grinds sticking to the bottom of the grinder due to static electricity.

User avatar
Bob_McBob

#19: Post by Bob_McBob » Oct 07, 2016, 3:09 am

What is the realistic capacity of the hopper and catch cup with a light roast?
Chris

Coasty

#20: Post by Coasty » Oct 13, 2016, 10:25 pm

Could any owners of the M47 comment on the ease of grinding at espresso fineness compared to a Lido 2 (1st generation burrs)?


Thanks in advance