K.I.S.S when it comes to grinders - Page 4

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
akallio

#31: Post by akallio »

dsc wrote:I'm quite sure that the Versalab hopper doesn't offer precision higher than 1g, it's simply a volume-kind of dispensing, it doesn't even weigh anything (why? because that's quite hard to do automatically). You can pick single beans out, but how will you know what's the current weight? you can of course install an electronic scale somewhere in the mechanism, but picking out beans after weighing doesn't sound like the best idea (you'd probably be better of doing it all manually).
It seems that I was unclear in my original post: I was suggesting that one would use some sort of doser mechanism (with 1 bean accuracy) to dose beans into a digital scale. Next you would engage a some sort of trap mechanism so that beans fall into grinder and the motor starts. Motor could stop automatically when there's no load.

So basically this would be what some people do (I used to do also): weight beans and dump them into the grinder. It just could be made more straightforward by building all required stuff into a single hopper/doser/scale complex.

The routine would be:
- grab doser handle (scale powers up and resets)
- do a couple of fast thwacks (yielding about 5 grams each)
- do one careful thwack (yielding whatever is still needed for your desired dose)
- flap grinding level so that beans fall down and grinder starts

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another_jim
Team HB

#32: Post by another_jim »

There are 6 to 8 beans per gram, so a method that gets X beans each time will be more accurate than any mechanical doser (0.3 grams) or timer (0.2 grams for the same coffee on the same day -- and I'd eat my hat if it's less than 0.5 grams over the course of a week with the same coffee, never mind changing between coffees that require very different grind fineness -- somebody actually do and post the measures before making assertions)
Jim Schulman

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dsc

#33: Post by dsc »

Hi guys,

a precise bean-counting-mechanism would still be quite hard to make in my opinion. Maybe a bit easier with SOs that have beans of similar size, but what about blends of beans of different sizes? I don't think a hopper/doser idea described above would prove efficient. I might be wrong though, anyone has the Versalab hopper and can post a comment about it?

Regards,
dsc.

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cafeIKE
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#34: Post by cafeIKE »

another_jim wrote:... or timer (0.2 grams for the same coffee on the same day -- and I'd eat my hat if it's less than 0.5 grams over the course of a week with the same coffee, never mind changing between coffees that require very different grind fineness -- somebody actually do and post the measures before making assertions)
I'm puzzled :?
From the tone of the post, it seems that the timer is fixed.
My timers are 0.1s and I adjust them daily along with the grind.
Today I dropped 0.5s and went 1.5 turns finer when switching from Caffe Fresco Ambrosia to Rocky Roaster Organic.
Moron that I am, I'm just about to bump the temp a degree. :wink:

Image Am I missing something :?:

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GVDub

#35: Post by GVDub »

What would be so tough about having the portafilter holder's arms attached to a digital scale that's feeding information back to the grinder. You tell it that you want 15.3 grams delivered to the portafilter, and when that's what you've got, the grinder turns off. 30 seconds (or whatever time interval later you want) it sends a blast of compressed air through the burrs and chute to clear anything that's left in there.

I know, it's not K.I.S.S. on one level (design and implementation), but simple for the end user - punch in what you want delivered, and that's what you get. That's always one of the contradictions - simple design can lead to more work by the user, where complicated design can make day to day use easier, at the expense of less user serviceability and decreased 'tinker factor'.
"Experience is a comb nature gives us after we are bald."
Chinese Proverb
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IMAWriter
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#36: Post by IMAWriter »

cafeIKE wrote:I'm puzzled
From the tone of the post, it seems that the timer is fixed.
My timers are 0.1s and I adjust them daily along with the grind.
Today I dropped 0.5s and went 1.5 turns finer when switching from Caffe Fresco Ambrosia to Rocky Roaster Organic.
Moron that I am, I'm just about to bump the temp a degree. :wink:
Am I missing something :?:
Ah, a voice in the wilderness. :lol: Thank you, Ian
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

cai42 (original poster)
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#37: Post by cai42 (original poster) »

Greetings,

Perhaps we should hire some "BEAN COUNTERS" to help us make espresso. But I don't think they are very accurate.

Cliff

akallio

#38: Post by akallio »

GVDub wrote:What would be so tough about having the portafilter holder's arms attached to a digital scale that's feeding information back to the grinder. You tell it that you want 15.3 grams delivered to the portafilter, and when that's what you've got, the grinder turns off. 30 seconds (or whatever time interval later you want) it sends a blast of compressed air through the burrs and chute to clear anything that's left in there.
You read my mind. :) Built in scale for the resulting grounds would be another option. That's actually what I am doing now, only the scale is not built in.

Weighing whole beans has the benefit of no grounds left behind. The bean doser could be designed to draw beans from two or three silos inside the hopper, so that switching between different beans would be a breeze (assuming the grinder adjustments were easy to operate).

You could actually do that blast of air with a simple rubber bubble or piston that the user punches to clear leftovers. And it could be designed so that you can use the same air channel to vacuum the grind chamber, making it easy to clean the grinder after Grindz.

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HB
Admin

#39: Post by HB »

I think you guys are taking this way, way too seriously. But purely as a thought experiment, I can imagine an Archimedes' screw mounted at the bottom of an offset hopper. As the screw turns, coffee beans would slowly advance into a weighing chamber. Once the scale had measured the required dose, the operator flips the hinged chamber, dumping the contents into the throat of the grinder.

In the unlikely event that this idea isn't already patented, I freely offer it to the world, free of charge and without restriction. Enjoy. :)
Dan Kehn

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GVDub

#40: Post by GVDub »

Only if we can work in sharks with frickin' laser beams mounted on their heads.
"Experience is a comb nature gives us after we are bald."
Chinese Proverb
LMWDP#238