James Hoffmann's $$$ single dose flat burr grinder reviews [VIDEO] - Page 19

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
eheffa
Posts: 54
Joined: 3 years ago

#181: Post by eheffa »

I hope this isn't too off-topic; but, I note that James Hoffman's review of the grinders included a comparative of the Lagom P64 to the Niche Zero.

As much as JH is clearly a fan of the Niche, he seemingly and unequivocally preferred the results in the cup from the Lagom over the Niche for espresso.

I posed a variant of this question on the Lagom P64 forum but I wonder how many others here have had access to both grinders and compared the results. Is there anyone here who would prefer the Niche Zero derived espresso to the Lagom? Is it true that you generally will get better espresso results with the much more expensive Lagom or is it very much a subjective, idiosyncratic judgment. (I am particularly interested in those drinking darker more traditional roast espresso.)

This would also prompt a cheapskate question: Could you duplicate the final espresso quality of the Lagom P64 with a modified Super Jolly with the same burrs or is the ability of the Lagom to spin at much slower speeds too significant? (I appreciate that the Lagom would have a much more elegant workflow and has other advantages such as compact size, relative quiet grind and simply looks better...)

Any comments or insights appreciated...

-evan

LuckyMark
Posts: 216
Joined: 4 years ago

#182: Post by LuckyMark »

Evan, there is at least two participants on the Australian Coffee Snobs forum who preferred the Lagom to the Niche, I remember distinctly as it was of interest to me. As these are two highly spoken about grinders on that forum, try searching the two together but be prepared for a few threads. :lol:

cdo
Posts: 145
Joined: 4 years ago

#183: Post by cdo »

eheffa wrote:I hope this isn't too off-topic; but, I note that James Hoffman's review of the grinders included a comparative of the Lagom P64 to the Niche Zero.

As much as JH is clearly a fan of the Niche, he seemingly and unequivocally preferred the results in the cup from the Lagom over the Niche for espresso.

I posed a variant of this question on the Lagom P64 forum but I wonder how many others here have had access to both grinders and compared the results. Is there anyone here who would prefer the Niche Zero derived espresso to the Lagom? Is it true that you generally will get better espresso results with the much more expensive Lagom or is it very much a subjective, idiosyncratic judgment. (I am particularly interested in those drinking darker more traditional roast espresso.)

This would also prompt a cheapskate question: Could you duplicate the final espresso quality of the Lagom P64 with a modified Super Jolly with the same burrs or is the ability of the Lagom to spin at much slower speeds too significant? (I appreciate that the Lagom would have a much more elegant workflow and has other advantages such as compact size, relative quiet grind and simply looks better...)

Any comments or insights appreciated...

-evan
I don't really have a hat in the game (I have a mazzer major so something a little close) the realm of variable rpm is pretty unexplored so I don't think anyone can truly say for sure. Utilizing the same burrs should result for a relatively similar results in cup, though aligning the burrs on the super jolly may be a little more difficult. And the world flow of course is nowhere near as nice.

I am someone with a bunch of industrial grinders as I was able to find them for much cheaper. The workflow is definitely not nearly as enjoyable as they are massive but they can work quite well.

coffeeOnTheBrain
Posts: 626
Joined: 4 years ago

#184: Post by coffeeOnTheBrain »

eheffa wrote:I hope this isn't too off-topic; but, I note that James Hoffman's review of the grinders included a comparative of the Lagom P64 to the Niche Zero.

As much as JH is clearly a fan of the Niche, he seemingly and unequivocally preferred the results in the cup from the Lagom over the Niche for espresso.

I posed a variant of this question on the Lagom P64 forum but I wonder how many others here have had access to both grinders and compared the results. Is there anyone here who would prefer the Niche Zero derived espresso to the Lagom? Is it true that you generally will get better espresso results with the much more expensive Lagom or is it very much a subjective, idiosyncratic judgment. (I am particularly interested in those drinking darker more traditional roast espresso.)

This would also prompt a cheapskate question: Could you duplicate the final espresso quality of the Lagom P64 with a modified Super Jolly with the same burrs or is the ability of the Lagom to spin at much slower speeds too significant? (I appreciate that the Lagom would have a much more elegant workflow and has other advantages such as compact size, relative quiet grind and simply looks better...)

Any comments or insights appreciated...

-evan
While James said that he tested with medium beans I would assume that these beans are way lighter than what you describe as dark. Eventhough James is not knowen for selling nordic light roasts I am pretty sure his taste preference is on the lighter side so don't bother listen to his judgment if you enjoy dark roasts, no offense really and I believe he would agree.
Also he judged the body of the Niche lower then any of the tested grinders. Owning a Niche I am pretty confident that this rating is just wrong. I think I am on the safe side assuming that the Niche has richer body then any of the tested grinders, which would bring the Niche much closer to the Lagom in terms of the numbers James presented. I did the math and it was 0.5 difference to the Lagom on average (I threw these notes in the trash a while back).
What I am trying to say is probably not so much of a difference between the Lagom and the Niche, but it heavily depends on your taste preference. I prefer lighter roasts but still prefer the Niche to an Eureka Atom or the SSP 64mm unimodal burrs. I owned all of these.

bas
Posts: 374
Joined: 15 years ago

#185: Post by bas »

Yes I agree: Niche shots have much body but lack clarity.

But I do not like the Niche for light Nordic roast. Too adstringent and not sweet enough.

coffeeOnTheBrain
Posts: 626
Joined: 4 years ago

#186: Post by coffeeOnTheBrain replying to bas »



I should have been more specific, I like medium to light espresso roasts as well as omni roasts on the Niche with flow profiling, I only buy Espresso with sweet fruit flavors such as plum, pineapple, or strawberry, never sour fruits. I am not a fan of light filter or actually any filter roasts on the Niche, but I do like those when at a friends place, from 80mm ssp burrs and a manual lever.

That is just my personal preference ;)

realbrotherjay
Posts: 59
Joined: 5 years ago

#187: Post by realbrotherjay »

I think his scores reflect a qualitative assessment of the shots' body rather than an attempt at quantifying how much body they have relative to one another. My impression, having used both extensively, is that shots from a big conical grinder tend to be fuller bodied than those from big flats, in general, but that doesn't necessarily mean I always enjoy that fuller bodied experience more than the comparatively lighter bodied shots from my big flat. My guess is that's what he was trying to communicate as well, but I'm not him so what do I know?

foam2
Posts: 273
Joined: 4 years ago

#188: Post by foam2 »

I have the lagom with hu burrs, a niche and a motorized HG1 which has the coated 83mm conical robur burrs. I did a three way tasting and overall I preferred the flavor from the lagom but kept going back for the hg1 with the niche being last but still very good. If I only had the niche I would still be very happy. I like the build of the lagom and hg1 as well as the flavors more than the niche.

coffeeOnTheBrain
Posts: 626
Joined: 4 years ago

#189: Post by coffeeOnTheBrain »

realbrotherjay wrote:I think his scores reflect a qualitative assessment of the shots' body rather than an attempt at quantifying how much body they have relative to one another. My impression, having used both extensively, is that shots from a big conical grinder tend to be fuller bodied than those from big flats, in general, but that doesn't necessarily mean I always enjoy that fuller bodied experience more than the comparatively lighter bodied shots from my big flat. My guess is that's what he was trying to communicate as well, but I'm not him so what do I know?
I like your interpretation, that would make sense. I do believe that James was trying to communicate what he thinks. My pseudo correction of his scores needs correction ;)
Anyway I do enjoy the body the Niche produces :)

eheffa
Posts: 54
Joined: 3 years ago

#190: Post by eheffa »

coffeeOnTheBrain wrote:While James said that he tested with medium beans I would assume that these beans are way lighter than what you describe as dark. Eventhough James is not knowen for selling nordic light roasts I am pretty sure his taste preference is on the lighter side so don't bother listen to his judgment if you enjoy dark roasts, no offense really and I believe he would agree.
Also he judged the body of the Niche lower then any of the tested grinders. Owning a Niche I am pretty confident that this rating is just wrong. I think I am on the safe side assuming that the Niche has richer body then any of the tested grinders, which would bring the Niche much closer to the Lagom in terms of the numbers James presented. I did the math and it was 0.5 difference to the Lagom on average (I threw these notes in the trash a while back).
What I am trying to say is probably not so much of a difference between the Lagom and the Niche, but it heavily depends on your taste preference. I prefer lighter roasts but still prefer the Niche to an Eureka Atom or the SSP 64mm unimodal burrs. I owned all of these.
Thanks for this.

Apart from the fact that ordinal rating systems can't really be averaged with simple arithmetic, I still get your point & appreciate the descriptive distinctions.

So much of this is totally subjective & fraught with confounding factors. The Lagom looks to be such an aesthetically high quality design & at almost $1000 USD more, should be a better grinder in every respect; but, is it $1000 better? That's a Tough question to answer from the sidelines...