Dopey32 wrote:May I ask why? I'm curious about it as it is the quietest way of grinding.....although my eureka atom is pretty darn quiet

I'm not presuming to answer for Robert, but my take on it, after hand grinding for espresso for six years before going electric, is there are at least two reasons you might:

1) If you pull light roasts, they can be very difficult with hand grinders (unless you have a wall mount or a knee mill). I fought many light, hard roasts with hand grinders. Sometimes it was borderline absurd how difficult it could be.

2) As far as I know, all hand grinders use a conical burr set. So if you want to explore flat burrs to optimize light roasts for espresso, hand grinders aren't an option. Again, I am happy to stand corrected if there are flat burr hand mills.

A little history for those newcomers who might have missed it:

Hand (grinder) Jive - a photo essay

The hand grinder revolution (pun intended) began right here on HB...

Dopey32 wrote:May I ask why? I'm curious about it as it is the quietest way of grinding.....although my eureka atom is pretty darn quiet

Hand grinders limit the user to conical burrs. My preference has been flat burrs with the roasts and beans I use with espresso. I have had great shots from DLC burrs namely a Versalab M3.

Espresso and similar fine grinding requires many burr revolutions, greater time and effort vs coarser grinding. Considering most of the noise comes from bean grinding and not the motor running with electric prosumer / commercial grinders. Some grinders such as the Atom line are not only quieter than many hand grinders but are on for only seconds vs hand grinding.

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

Another question why do you prefer flat burrs

grog wrote:As far as I know, all hand grinders use a conical burr set. So if you want to explore flat burrs to optimize light roasts for espresso, hand grinders aren't an option. Again, I am happy to stand corrected if there are flat burr hand mills.

The only flat burr hand grinder isn't designed for espresso, the Orphan Espresso Apex, which uses ghost burrs. Also are those technically considered flat burrs or another category? So yes, hand grinders in stock form that I've tried aren't the best for very light roasts, but do you need flat burrs for that? The Niche Zero grinder I'm trying now has conical burrs and excels for light roasts as validated by blind tasting in the current review. Go figure. So what would happen if I increase the leverage on my HG1 by replacing the stock bar that attaches the handle to the flywheel with a longer bar? Can a Mazzer Robur excel with very light roasts? Same burr set as HG1. What about a Mazzer Kony? Same burr set as a Niche Zero. Does the Kony crank out low RPMs like the Niche, or like a hand grinder with sufficient leverage for low RPMs? Does particle shape and distribution change at different speeds? Many questions here I can't currently answer.

Dopey32 wrote:Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

Another question why do you prefer flat burrs

Two reasons, I can grind directly into my basket without the need to stir / mix grinds. The main reason is taste preference.

drgary wrote:The only flat burr hand grinder isn't designed for espresso, the Orphan Espresso Apex, which uses ghost burrs. Also are those technically considered flat burrs or another category? So yes, hand grinders in stock form that I've tried aren't the best for very light roasts, but do you need flat burrs for that? The Niche Zero grinder I'm trying now has conical burrs and excels for light roasts as validated by blind tasting in the current review. Go figure. So what would happen if I increase the leverage on my HG1 by replacing the stock bar that attaches the handle to the flywheel with a longer bar? Can a Mazzer Robur excel with very light roasts? Same burr set as HG1. What about a Mazzer Kony? Same burr set as a Niche Zero. Does the Kony crank out low RPMs like the Niche, or like a hand grinder with sufficient leverage for low RPMs? Does particle shape and distribution change at different speeds? Many questions here I can't currently answer.

Maybe it's a bit of an overstatements saying the Niche "excels with light roasts" without more context. Light roast is a bit too general and can mean different things to different people or regions.

Not saying the Niche isn't great for the money but there's definitely grinders that "excel more" for lighter roasts.

Check the review and its head to head comparisons. Then there is my personal experience of using the Niche to pull delicious shot after shot of a professionally roasted coffee that only tasted sour with my other grinders.

That's not something particular to the Niche since most conical grinders offer a "fuller" more balanced cup. Even more so from a typical espresso roast, which is closer to a medium roast in the USA.

devlin2427 wrote:That's not something particular to the Niche since most conical grinders offer a "fuller" more balanced cup. Even more so from a typical espresso roast, which is closer to a medium roast in the USA.

That's a statement I'd like explained considering every coffee lab and tasting setup I've seen or attended used a flat grinder. Ditting K804 lab sweet and Mahlkonig GUA710 lab grinder with knock feature are used extensively, both if which employ flat burrs. Carvalho roasters were until recently using a Versalab M3 with DRM burrs. The final coffee was finished via a flat burr.

Carvalho Coffee roasters with pictures

First time seen live. Mahlkonig GUA710 Lab Grinder

Last summer I stopped of at Coffee Cart in Copenhagen whereby they used a N.S. Mythos for espresso and espresso based drinks and a Mahlkonig VTA 6ST for customers to grind their bagged beans.