It's the grinder... continued - Page 2
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I just ordered the cafelat robot :=]
My goal here was to get a good enough grinder for decent espresso, before one day when I'll be old and rich I'll buy the perfect setup.
My question has been answered I think, thanks all for the replies.
In summary, a good grinder means a regular grain, will be deterministic (consistent), and precise, all ingredients for the road to the perfect espresso !
My goal here was to get a good enough grinder for decent espresso, before one day when I'll be old and rich I'll buy the perfect setup.
My question has been answered I think, thanks all for the replies.
In summary, a good grinder means a regular grain, will be deterministic (consistent), and precise, all ingredients for the road to the perfect espresso !
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Yeah, I was perusing this thread and had recently made the same point. Literally a decade ago, it was essentially held as a gospel belief that large conicals were by far better and in particular for lighter roasts.TomC wrote:Consistency matters.
10 years ago, large conical grinders were the darling of the cognoscenti. Flat burrs hung out slightly in their shadow. For the past 6 years or so, more attention has been paid to burr parallelism/alignment and flat, large, well engineered burrs have taken the lead again.
When you step up to the level where diminishing returns kick in, your best accomplishment is having a grinder that is easier to hit a sweet spot more consistently. You're not leaping blind into a dark room hoping your tongue lands on a stamp as much.
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Today, the prevailing conventional wisdom is that only flat burrs are capable of grinding lighter roasts.
Honestly, that has not been my experience. I'm quite happy with the performance of my conical on light roast beans for espresso. The geometry of the burr really doesn't matter that much. The design of the cutting surfaces of the particular burr and the mechanical precision and stability of the grinder's construction matter much more in terms of what winds up in the cup.
I really don't want to get into arguments over what is "light". I'm using the SCAA's gourmet coffee terminology and references. At least those are published and measurable values. If someone has their own feelings about what light means, then they owe us an Agtron reading, or some other repeatable, measurable reference.
- another_jim
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So far, I've run into only one coffee, a roast of my own, that came out better on a large flat than a large conical. And it was a roast I would not repeat. But it is likely that there are many very light roasted coffees that will taste slightly flat on a conical and have more clarity on a flat. On the other hand, even a superb single dosing flat, like the Monolith, is slow and finicky when compared to a large single dosing conical. So for me, since I only occasionally do ultra-light roasts, I prefer to stick with a conical. But for a hobbyist who does mostly ultra-light roasts, a big flat is likely the better choice.
That said, people who can't get anything except lemon and lemon peel from light roasts shouldn't shop grinders, they should just grind finer and dose lower. If, once they get balanced shots, they taste mostly flat; then they should consider a grinder upgrade.
That said, people who can't get anything except lemon and lemon peel from light roasts shouldn't shop grinders, they should just grind finer and dose lower. If, once they get balanced shots, they taste mostly flat; then they should consider a grinder upgrade.
Jim Schulman
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I wasn't quite sure where to post the following, but I figure this thread is as good a place as any. I've had a Breville Express (my first and only espresso machine) for a year now, and was wondering if I am indeed 'missing out' on the more subtle flavors of espresso that many folks at HB seem to suggest cannot be achieved with the Express grinder. I'm relatively new to the hobby and my palate is probably undeveloped, but I've made a variety of different drinks with different beans (Onyx's Geometry and Monarch; Olympia's Big Truck and Sweetheart; 49th Parallel's Epic and Old School all come to mind) with great personal satisfaction-reviling anything I've had at local coffee shops. But given my inexperience with technique, equipment, etc., I feel like I'm missing something given the preponderance of evidence suggesting high-end grinders do indeed make a difference.
...it just struck me that the coffee I listed would probably fall into the 'comfort' category with predominantly chocolate, nutty flavors- perhaps I need to experiment with lighter roasts but not quite sure if my grinder (or machine for that matter) is up to the task.
...it just struck me that the coffee I listed would probably fall into the 'comfort' category with predominantly chocolate, nutty flavors- perhaps I need to experiment with lighter roasts but not quite sure if my grinder (or machine for that matter) is up to the task.