Is the Ultra Grinder a Monolith copy? - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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Bluecold (original poster)

#11: Post by Bluecold (original poster) »

Sure,
To me, it's a combination of:
- general aesthetic
- motor on the outside (so no housing)
- top plate in the shape of the grinder body
- special color on the top plate
- upper burr carrier on posts
- small, magnetically attached chute, which is designed to be moved as part of the normal workflow

All these points were unique to the Monolith until the Levercraft came along.

Taken per item, it's not too important. Taken all these similarities together, especially since these traits were unique to the Monolith, makes the Levercraft, in my eyes, a copy.
LMWDP #232
"Though I Fly Through the Valley of Death I Shall Fear No Evil For I am at 80,000 Feet and Climbing."

thoang77

#12: Post by thoang77 »

Bluecold wrote:Sure,
To me, it's a combination of:
- general aesthetic
- motor on the outside (so no housing)
- top plate in the shape of the grinder body
- special color on the top plate
- upper burr carrier on posts
- small, magnetically attached chute, which is designed to be moved as part of the normal workflow
But aren't the first 3 items are a byproduct of both being fairly minimal and stripped down devices using prefab motors and machined aluminum? The 4th item definitely could have easily avoided though, especially by not choosing red. If the ultra was a white cylinder or a metallic green plastic encased box, would you feel different about it being a copy?

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sweaner
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#13: Post by sweaner »

And, a Corvette looks like a Ferrari...

I think that the grinders look quite different overall. Most grinders look similar.
Scott
LMWDP #248
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ira
Team HB

#14: Post by ira »

Mazzer has had sliding burr carriers for years. Is it the same, no, but there are only a few ways to adjust burrs. Most commonly you either mount them on the threaded piece and have a locking ring, like early Monoliths and others or you mount them on a sliding piece that's held from turning by ribs or posts or any other method you can think of. Putting a motor below the burrs in line has been done for years. When you're designing for limited production things tend to be shaped like the biggest component, in this case, the motor. While I can understand why someone might think this has a resemblance to the Monolith, I'd suggest asking the guy who made the Monolith if he feels ripped off. Also, if one could actually buy the Monolith, the opening for other similar class grinders would be much smaller, but because he's left a void the size of the Grand Canyon, the market is seeing to it that the need is taken care of. FWIW, the Option-O is as much of a Monolith copy as this is!

Ira
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max

#15: Post by max »

ira wrote:FWIW, the Option-O is as much of a Monolith copy as this is!
The same discussion can be found in the Lagom thread as well. And before that, every cylindrical hand grinder was called a Lido rip-off. Those not cylindrical were naturally Pharos rip-offs. This is the H-B way.

coffeeOnTheBrain

#16: Post by coffeeOnTheBrain »

Sorry for following the OT trend and actually also sorry for giving this claim more audience, but how exactly is this grinder a copy of any other grinder?
It uses SSP burrs, like some other single dosing grinders out there. Frankly at least some of SSP's burrs are pretty close to MK burrs. So be careful with this one. By the way I actually appreciate Han going the extra mile to provide the best burrs for certain use cases.
It looks like anything CnC machined looks, so again somewhat similar to other single dose grinders. What about the old doser grinders with alu body from Mazzer, Quamar, Eureka, or basically anyone. Did somebody ever call them copy cats? I think it was called competition ;)

This range of RPM and 2 sizes of burrs that would fit in is unheard of. Please pay respect where respect is due.

Also there is a line between actual fraud and opinions, it is called law. And in this case we are far away from the line.

PS: @any moderator please be so kind to move all this copy cat nonsense, including mine to a separate thread.
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User avatar
lancealot

#17: Post by lancealot »

Bluecold wrote:Ah, so we're doing 'slippery slope' arguments now....
Well, you kinda started it...
Bluecold wrote:In the long run, the coffee community will suffer as no one will invest in bringing a new product to market if it will be copied within a moment's notice, and people support that behavior.

Bunkmil

#18: Post by Bunkmil »

Can we start a new thread to talk about what's a copy and what's not ?
This discussion is going away from the Ultra...

RobindG

#19: Post by RobindG »

If it's a copy or not, there is not a lot of innovation. What I like though is the possibility for higher speed than the MAX.

What I like to see is some sort of bean feed on a horizontal or tilted burr grinder, like the EK43 has.

And somehow Versalab doesn't need RDT and WDT. It is perfect straight from the burrs into the portafilter. That makes your prep much easier and faster. It would be nice if there was a SD flat burr grinder that needs less prep.

... How about a small roller grinder!

DucaiMann
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#20: Post by DucaiMann »

RobindG wrote:... How about a small roller grinder!
Don't think I haven't thought about that before! :)
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