Is it worth upgrading from Ceado e37s to Lagom P64? My thoughts on the Ceado e37s

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Maggiekw

#1: Post by Maggiekw »

I received my new ceado e37s a little over a month ago and I would like to say that I am happy with it, but I'm starting to wonder if I made the wrong choice. The choice was between the ceado and niche zero, and I chose the ceado because of the large flat burrs, the reliability and low rotation, and I do not regret that. I have allready run close to 20 pounds of coffee trough it to season it.

I get a good taste out of the ceado. I get a well-balanced shot, nice fruitiness, good body with good sweetness. It is quiet, grinds extremely fast and fluffy grinds. The problem is that its only me and my wife that drink coffee at home. I like to play with variables and flavors, so that means I set the grinder level several times to see how much I can influence the taste in different directions. I get a little crazy from having to purge the grinder every time and I feel like I have a little too much wastage for my own mental health. I also like the idea that the grinder is empty between each shot. So a single dose grinder would suit me better.

I find it difficult to get a consistency when I adjust the grinder. I feel the grinder needs 2-3 shots before it becomes consistent, and when you go back to an old setting it is not necessarily the same as it once was. Now I find myself buying a larger quantity of a bean, dial in the grinder and leave it until it runs out, and for that job the ceado is really good(perfect for a coffee shop), but for me that takes the fun out of it.

When I chose the ceado, the flat burrs won over the niche's conical burrs, and I thought I got a lot for my money with the ceado, but I underestimated the value of a single dose grinder. I'm annoyed that I did not thought of the Lagom p64 before. It will definitely solve my problems with having to purge between each adjustment, the waste will go down and i really like the design of it, but is it a better grinder then the ceado e37s?

Ceado e37s have bigger burrs, but the lagom have lower rpm(better consistency?). Can the lagom produce the same balance and sweetness? I like to buy light roast, but try to tame the brightness. I feel the ceado doing a good job on that point but i feel that especially the mouthfeel / body of the shot is considerably better when I buy a shot of the same coffee bean at the local roaster. I see that I get a little bit of channeling no matter what I do. Grinds in a dosing cup, wdt tool, calibrated normcore tamper, pre infusion. I have read that this may be an inaccuracy in the grinds from the ceado that produces channeling. This only applies to light roast when I grind really fine. I think it can have an effect on the mouthfeel and the shot varies a little bit because it brews a little unevenly every time(you have to have a good sense of taste to taste it, pretty cosistent, but not perfect)

Does anyone have experience with using very light roast beans on the lagom p64? What does the shot look like and what is the taste / body / balance compared to the ceado e37s, even though it has almost 20mm smaller burrs? Since I will lose some money by selling the ceado and buy the lagom p64, I will only do it if it will produce an equally or better shot than the ceado, and address my other mentioned problems.

This was a longer post than I first thought, but one last question. If it really makes a big difference, then I can afford a grinder like lagom p100 or monolith flat. But it's a lot of money and I do not have to have the absolute best. It seems almost impossible to get them too. I just want a grinder that can give me the accuracy that gives me room to play with flavors and variables, but also make high quality shots.

Really appreciate if someone have tried the lagom p64 and can share their experiences, if someone have something to say about burr size and rpm or if anyone experiences any of the same issues as me with channeling

Ypuh

#2: Post by Ypuh »

Sounds like you don't really need us.

The Lagom P64 can carry SSP burrs, which takes away most of the difference between the smaller burr size (which is only a number).

A Lagom P100 or Monolith are nearly impossible to buy, so not really an option if you'd ask me.
I don't want a Decent

Maggiekw (original poster)

#3: Post by Maggiekw (original poster) »

In short what im asking help for is:

1. The quality difference between 83 burrs and 64 burrs?
2. Can a low rpm give a more cosistent grind compared to the super fast grinding of ceado e37s?
3. How do the lagom deliver on light roast. Have read that it has very good clearity, but what about mouthfeel/body and sweetness?
4. Have someone experianced my problem with channeling when grinding really fine, even with pre infusion and every single tool to avoid it?

Goldscalpel

#4: Post by Goldscalpel »

I have the Ceado E37D and the three from Kafatek. They are all amazing grinders with amazing in cup and each has their own idiosyncrasies. It takes time and attention to detail. At the end, the changing variables of even the same coffee can be tricky. I will say they all took pounds of coffee to season and to reach consistency. Every morning,I use both the Londinium and Lelit and I have no problem achieving consistent results as long I remember to adjust the grind.

If I were you, I would just stick with the Ceado and maximize possibilities and enjoy your amazing grinder.

Best

cyclezib

#5: Post by cyclezib »

I also owned a Ceado E37S. I had a lot of challenges getting it to work to my satisfaction.
I'm sure Ceado makes superb grinders. But the one I received did not work properly and I sent it back for a full credit.

There is a thread in this forum on Ceado E37S and problems users have / had with it =
viewtopic.php?p=773503?hilit=ceado%20nightmare#p773503

Yes, you need to first purge the Ceado with about 8 grams of beans each morning. Still, the 2nd cup you extract may taste better than the first cup.
There are things you can do to help purge the grinder, such as with a puffer. But the Ceado E37S was not made for single dosing (it can be partially adapted). As you said, that is part of the decision you made in selecting this grinder.

As you describe your situation, you seem to have gotten the grinder working well for you. If you like the taste of your espresso, that is the most important factor.

tbb

#6: Post by tbb »

The stock burrs in my E37S were so uneven, that even after proper alignment they would be touching slightly at the grind setting required for light roast espresso. I suppose it was designed with medium or dark roasts in mind.

Changing to SSP burrs is, in my opinion, a must for being able to grind light roast espresso with this grinder.

Alignment of the stationary burr was also needed on mine.

I don't know if they have changed the anti-static flap, but on mine I was able to limit retention quite dramatically by opening the flap slightly more up. If you open it too much however, the grounds start clumping due to static and the timed dosing becomes very inaccurate (read useless).

LewBK

#7: Post by LewBK »

Which version of the E37S do you have as the grinder has evolved over the years? I don't have one, but I have heard there is a significant different between the ones with worm gear and those without.

Maggiekw (original poster)

#8: Post by Maggiekw (original poster) »

Thanks for answers. I think i will keep the ceado a bit more to see if I can figure out the channeling problem. Try different light roasts to see if I can see a pattern. Can be interesting. I have the newest model, bought new in 2021. It has worm gear.

makspyat

#9: Post by makspyat »

tbb wrote:The stock burrs in my E37S were so uneven, that even after proper alignment they would be touching slightly at the grind setting required for light roast espresso. I suppose it was designed with medium or dark roasts in mind.
Ceado E5SD owner here. E5SD turns coffee into gooey talc on the finest setting, when burrs touch each other.

I found this by mistake. Mine was preset from the factory too coarse (espresso settings were below 0). However there are 2 screws on the adjustment collar that change 0 point, and I set mine finer. Next, I foolishly tried that...

The grinder stalled and I had to back off. What came out, looked like clumps of a very fine talc.

This choks my machine. I never go finer than 1.9