Impact of popcorning on single dosing

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
culturesub

Postby culturesub » Jan 08, 2019, 12:06 pm

Hey all- sorry to start a new thread(although it was suggested!) after I posted on this already, but what is the impact of pop corning on single dosing a grinder not intended for that, specifically for pour over?

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BaristaBoy E61

Postby BaristaBoy E61 » Jan 08, 2019, 12:27 pm

As of late I have been using our Mahlkonig K30 Vario for single dosing with no pop-corning or other ill effect. I do adjust the grinder for a finer grind than I would with a full hopper but that's about it. I weigh the beans going in, the ground coffee coming out (not anywhere near the retention that I thought there would be) and the espresso in the cup.

As always, basket preparation with WDT is key. Results have been better than expected.

Give it a try; nothing to lose!
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

Asriel

Postby Asriel » Jan 08, 2019, 10:59 pm

culturesub wrote:Hey all- sorry to start a new thread(although it was suggested!) after I posted on this already, but what is the impact of pop corning on single dosing a grinder not intended for that, specifically for pour over?


Popcorning will certainly affect the quality of the grind as the beans will get grind in a non-uniform way. That's mean more chances of boulders or fines.

Scott Rao talked about this in his recent Instagram post:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsYq_LmFzCy ... 7f2n6lsrzf

Dmitry100

Postby Dmitry100 » Jan 09, 2019, 6:48 pm

Does it affect grind on ones like hg-1 ? If I grind fast enough, sometimes they get spit out

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Jan 09, 2019, 9:06 pm

Asriel wrote:Popcorning will certainly affect the quality of the grind as the beans will get grind in a non-uniform way. That's mean more chances of boulders or fines.

Scott Rao talked about this in his recent Instagram post:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsYq_LmFzCy ... 7f2n6lsrzf


Really? I haven't noticed any difference. All my grinders have been converted to single dosing.
One flat for espresso, one conical for espresso, one for coarse pour over.

RyanJE

Postby RyanJE » Jan 09, 2019, 10:30 pm

Asriel wrote:Popcorning will certainly affect the quality of the grind as the beans will get grind in a non-uniform way. That's mean more chances of boulders or fines.

Scott Rao talked about this in his recent Instagram post:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BsYq_LmFzCy ... 7f2n6lsrzf


Is there actually some solid data and proof behind this? I've read a lot of what Scott writes and I don't see the backup and support.

It's too bad he and the Socratic people don't work together. They seem to do a ton of data collection, just doesn't really materialize into results or conclusions all the time. Scott seems the other end of the spectrum where his work is largely opinion....

Maybe shops should abandon their ek43s for drip duty and switch to mazzer Roburs so they can hopper dose...

Should everyone abandon cupping, because isn't every cupping bowl that is produced properly single dosed?
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

Asriel

Postby Asriel » replying to RyanJE » Jan 09, 2019, 11:32 pm

I haven't come across any scientific data on this but I think his reasoning for me sounds logical. My guess it affects the grind quality of the last few beans but not sure whether it has significant effect on taste.

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another_jim
Team HB

Postby another_jim » Jan 10, 2019, 12:08 am

Single dosing requires finer grind settings since less beans are going through the burrs at any one time and they are less likely to crush each other, i.e., the beans do less work, so the burrs need to do more. That part has no effect on grind quality.

The efficiency with which burrs suck in beans varies dramatically, both by the burr geometry and the coating on the burrs (Bunn Turkish and regular burrs are identical but for the coating, and the Turkish burrs suck in beans far better). There are some grinders that can grind down to Turkish fineness with a full hopper and can't even manage an ordinary espresso shot when single dosed, the excellent line of Eureka grinders, for instance. This obviously does affect the grind quality.

Conical burrs are always excellent for single dosing; flats can be tricky. I'm guessing when Denis is choosing burrs for his Monolith flats, he has to do a lot of testing to find those that work well.

Quite obviously, Scott Rao has absolutely zero experience with the Monoliths or any other purpose built single dosing grinder, otherwise he wouldn't be pontificating. This ignorance is par for the course when it comes to commercial espresso gurus talking about high level hobbyist practice. We listen to them, probably too much; while they have no clue about what we are doing, and how much better than them we are doing it.
Jim Schulman

CwD

Postby CwD » Jan 10, 2019, 2:49 am

A single dosed grinder can outperform literally every other grinder in the world hoppered and still underperform versus the quality it would have hoppered. But all-at-once single dosing has the inherent issue, no matter the grinder or burrs, that the first beans ground are pushed through the burrs differently than the last. I trickle beans in slowly such that no beans have weight on them, to keep grind constant throughout the dose.

guydebord

Postby guydebord » Jan 10, 2019, 6:07 pm

another_jim wrote:There are some grinders that can grind down to Turkish fineness with a full hopper and can't even manage an ordinary espresso shot when single dosed, the excellent line of Eureka grinders, for instance. This obviously does affect the grind quality.


What Eureka grinders are you talking about? I have had excellent experiences of single dosing on the new Mignon series and the Atom, also I can't wait to try their blow-up tech in their other grinders.
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