Your theory of increased lubricity causing a nearly 100% decrease in grinding efficiency is pretty entertaining to ponder, and as good an explanation as any considering the lack of formal testing beyond some preliminary observations. That the speed and therefore the efficiency will increase over time is a presumption at this point...assuming that burrs will grind more efficiently when they become less sharp?

If coated burrs cause such a change in efficiency it seems that Terranova, who has a number of burr sets for his Versalab coated in different materials, could bring some information to the discussion since a person would likely notice his grinder taking twice as long to grind the same amount of coffee beans.

It would be interesting if one could coat just the leading edge of the teeth of the grinder and leave the rest uncoated and see if the beans still grab and feed the same as the stock burrs. I can't help but think it just comes down to a lack of friction and the beans are more prone to slipping around before rougher edges get "caught" and pulled down by the teeth.

As a first order test, we could all do a quick experiment to see if this theory holds any water.

First, get some beans without any visible oil on them.

Grind them and count cranks.

Take same beans, and liberally spray or add water droplets ala RDT. Grind and count.

I think there's a thread someone posted about RDT decreasing pop corning. Obviously, this wont alter the friction as much after the first couple breaks, when you get past the surface coating of water, but maybe it would give some hint?

One benefit of this test is that your grinder is a control.
No guessing that you have a slightly different grind setting, burr alignment, or burr sharpness. One would hope any change in the crank count would be attributed solely to the change in friction/adhesion due to the water droplets.

The Addition of water would throw this off, but one could also try cranking 10times and weighing the grinds, as I sometimes feel its hard to know which cranks to count toward the end of turning when the burr isn't fully populated with beanage.


And yea, you can very easily mask the faces of the burrs so they don't get any pvd coating. I say easy, as it's somewhat trivial though tedious, so it would take time and surely add cost.

orphanespresso wrote:Your theory of increased lubricity causing a nearly 100% decrease in grinding efficiency is pretty entertaining to ponder, and as good an explanation as any considering the lack of formal testing beyond some preliminary observations. That the speed and therefore the efficiency will increase over time is a presumption at this point...assuming that burrs will grind more efficiently when they become less sharp?

If coated burrs cause such a change in efficiency it seems that Terranova, who has a number of burr sets for his Versalab coated in different materials, could bring some information to the discussion since a person would likely notice his grinder taking twice as long to grind the same amount of coffee beans.

In my opinion they won't like it and by now im pretty sure they know what that table of ex mazzers has turned into.

I just ordered a HG-One with 83mm TiN coated burrs. Very excited and anxious to find out if it's an immediate improvement in taste over my Eureka Mignon.
What with the TiN coating? I hope it makes things better, not worse.. Isn't the idea to have sharp burrs? In commercial environments, if you don't change burrs when they get dull, the quality of the cup suffers, right? Then you put new ones in, and it's good again.. So why are TiN coated burrs that stay sharp for longer a problem?

The Mazzer Royal comes with titanium burrs as an option straight from the Mazzer factory, would that mean they're making a mistake there?

Hugonl28 wrote:. So why are TiN coated burrs that stay sharp for longer a problem?

Who said that sharp TiN coated burrs are a problem? From what I've been told by someone who has been through it the burrs can be dulled during the blasting process if you aren't REALLY careful.Then you end up with dull coated burrs. That would be a problem. If the whole process goes well the coated burrs should remain sharp much longer then uncoated burrs.

Here is something to consider when talking about TiN coated burrs. TiN coating extends useful life of burrs by factor about 5 according to Compak. So if burrs were rated for 2600 lbs of coffee with TiN they rate them at 13000 lbs. That is fantastic and we at home will never approach these limits.

Flip-side of it is that if non-coated burrs needed 30 LBS of coffee to season TiN coated burrs would need 150 LBS of coffee to season since they do not wear nearly as fast as non-coated burrs. Numbers are of course extrapolated based on the rated TiN burr capacity increase of factor of 5. Amount of coffee needed to season TiN coated burrs of course will be more or less that this number, but until someone tries this its just a theory.

Whatever exact number of pounds needed to season TiN burrs is, I think its completely safe to assume that you will need more coffee through TiN burrs to season them or coating is not doing its job.

My Compak burrs that were supposedly pre-seasoned, Compak now sells pre-seasoned burrs, needed about 30-40 lbs of coffee through them to settle down.

can't wait for mine, should be here next wednesday,
also added the E-61 portafilter holder!
hope i dont regret selecting on the TIN burrs

ds wrote:Here is something to consider when talking about TiN coated burrs. TiN coating extends useful life of burrs by factor about 5 according to Compak. So if burrs were rated for 2600 lbs of coffee with TiN they rate them at 13000 lbs. That is fantastic and we at home will never approach these limits.

At two pounds a week, 2600 pounds of coffee in home use would be 25 years.

Flip-side of it is that if non-coated burrs needed 30 LBS of coffee to season TiN coated burrs would need 150 LBS of coffee to season since they do not wear nearly as fast as non-coated burrs. Numbers are of course extrapolated based on the rated TiN burr capacity increase of factor of 5.

If that is even remotely true, then the likelihood of even noticing that they have been "seasoned" (broken in) is slim other than a long-term, slow change in grind setting or flavor. Like shock absorbers, you notice the difference when you install new ones. At two pounds a week, that would be 18 months of seasoning time. And I would guess that it might be even longer than that, if it changed noticeably at all.

I think the key factor is the condition of the burrs when they were coated/treated.