I'm relatively new to making my own espresso. My taste preference is pretty much the way Red Bird Espresso describes it: this espresso starts with a distinct hazelnut-chocolate aroma and progresses to sweet chocolate, toasted nut and caramel flavors in the cup...

I would like to get a solid grinder (using a Hario hand grinder for now) and have tried to read a lot. A common statement is that flat burrs may favor chocolate flavors while conicals bring out the fruity, acidic notes. But there are others suggesting that such differences are subtle and that conicals might not reduce chocolate flavors.

My question is whether the HG-1 would result in less of the Red Bird flavor compared to a good flat burr grinder. I like the idea of manual grinding and single dosing with the HG-1, but if there is a greater chance of creating a Red Bird flavor with flat burrs, that would be more important.

I have an HG-1 and been on a run of Red Bird Espresso lately because (with my taster) it's giving me nice 'chocolately' shots, which is what I want.
I did though switch over to RB Blue Jaguar on the last order, and frankly pretty good on the chocolate side also.
(That being said, there are a lot of folks on this forum with much better tasters than mine, but this is what I'm experiencing.)

I have a Compak K10, and the same conical burrs in a hand grinder. From my very limited experience I am able to get ample chocolate & nutty notes from beans with either grinder. Unfortunately I don't have a flat burr grinder to compare this with to say definitively whether one style of burr is better than another for your goal.

When I had a Vario it didn't excel at pulling out the fruity notes from beans, and therefore I had more chocolate & nutty notes in my pulls as a result. With the conical burrs I use now I can chase those fruity notes if that's what I want.

The coffee to water ratio and your skills as a barista will more than likely play a bigger part in sweet tasting extractions than the difference in burr type once you hit hg1 and bit flat burr grinders ( ek43 aside )

My exact thoughts too!

Raising the temperature and lowering your yield simotaniously may give you more chocolates nuts and Carmel.

Playing with a Robur and a major side by side, the conical seemed brighter, but also heavier at the same time, like syrup. The flat provided softer fruit notes but also the deeper tones weren't as heavy.

If you want chocolaty shot just use a bean that has those flavor characteristics.

You can then change the balance of it by changing the ratio, these things play a much larger role then the grinder it self. Even water is vastly more important then what type of commercial grinder you choose.

Yes there is a differences between grinders but these differences are in reality rather small especially if comparing espresso grinder with espresso grinder.

However I would more then like choose the type of grinder my favorite places chooses if I mostly drank beans or blend from one particular place. This would bring me one step closer to what they had in mind. (Although I would also need the same machine and water to get there)

There tend to be to much talk and focus on improving the flavors is the cup when people decide to upgrade. What ideally should have been the main focus is achieving a higher consistency and perhaps lowering retention/waste. This has long been the main focus in the commercial environment, you don't really come across much talk about difference in taste between conicals and flat for them it is mostly about improving consistency.

That said I'm a flat burr guy as I find these more practical in a home, the k10pb however is in all fairness better at SD, then all the flatburrs I have owned ( Mazzer Mini E, Major E, Mahlkonig k30), I honestly don't know if that also would be the case with all those other grinders I have tried and used as these where hopper fed. And the k10 is with a timer (poor mans e10) actually pretty dam good and consistent too and so easy to get an even density in the basket with.

Getting the flavor you're after can be a bit of a chase. I think it's fair to say that the HG-1 will, based on what I've read about it from those that have it. But no grinder will overcome the other inputs (beans, cleanliness of machines, dose weight, grind, roaster, water (flavor), and water temperature), and the rate of output (g/sec). Some have reported that longer extraction times work for them. Some might also add basket manufacturer, but I don't feel that way.

The best way to get to nirvana is to be very careful in how to create your recipe with those inputs and be methodical in execution.

That said, I have found surprising chocolate tones in grinds from my Lido E grinder. And since I've upgraded the SJ burr set the consistency of god shots has gone up beyond my wildest expectations. Upgrading is a fine thing to do, but you're still going to have to control the recipe. Recipe first, grinder second is my suggestion, but there is nothing wrong with reversing the order. Eventually you'll have to do both.

Thanks for the all the information. It makes sense that, with quality flat or conical grinders, other factors become more important in determining flavor. I don't have temperature control with my machine (Rancilio Silvia) but try some "temperature surfing". I haven't looked into water since I'm pretty sure our water is not particularly hard or soft.

Still a tough decision but I think I'm close to getting the HG-1.

I know it's not super helpful in your situation, but I have found seemingly minor temperature changes to be very helpful in pursuing certain flavor profiles/notes. Higher temps seem to help bring out chocolate notes like people have mentioned. Just in case you upgrade your machine later!

Good question, though. I have learned from others' replies.