samuellaw178 wrote:Btw, I will be returning the review unit next weekend. Is there anything anyone would like to see/test/ask? Will be really sad to see it go, I've grown to really like it, a LOT...

The Monolith Conical has 68mm burrs, while Helor Stance has 83mm Mazzer burrs. And both grinders comprise high-end construction and materials, while emphasizing alignment. So theoretically the Helor Stance is capable of achieving higher extraction yield than the Monolith Conical, right?

Well folks, it looks like I have to correct myself. I just went back to the Option-O website and read a little more carefully. I must now speculate that "the hefty noise-dampening stainless steel chamber" is the grinder body, and that the "6061 machined and powder-coated aluminum for body and base" is referring to the large cylindrical housing to which the grinder is coupled. I have emailed Option-O asking them to clear this up for me but because of the 14-hour time zone difference (plus or minus an hour - Melbourne to Charleston, SC USA) I don't expect to hear from them until this evening. If they tell me I'm wrong, I will certainly put out another post and correct it (again). If I'm right on this, I won't say any more. With Sam's review, the information on the Option-O website and the prompt and thorough replies I am getting from Option-O, I am quite confident the Stance Motor will be a quality product and that I will be happy I got my order in. And, I also wouldn't be surprised if the next batch has a price increase.

It's all good John, we are all in the same boat trying to figure things out and honing in to understanding and knowing the Stance Motor. It certainly is built with a lot of well thought out design and quality features it seems. And now, I(we) only have a few days to make up my(our) mind(s) before the much awaited pre-order date for the Monolith conical/flat. Frankly, I do not know what to do - yet.

What advantages would the Monolith conical have over the Helor Stance Motor?
It seems to me that the Helor Motor trumps the MonCon in every category.

The Mon Con has an excellent established reputation, made with great care in the U.S., beautifully engineered and clearly capable of producing world class results in the cup. Also, the footprint appears smaller than the Stance Motor and that could be important for some users. The Stance is a bit of a gamble at the early stage. Even with burrs bigger may not always produce better results. However, the Stance looks to have the overall advantage and may impact interest and sales of the Mon Con, but will unlikely have any impact on the Monolith Flat or Flat Max. I think I'd be most happy with either conical.

Just heard back from Option-O. It seems I got it right on my last attempt on what's aluminum and what's stainless steel, but they have made a recent decision on how they will finish the aluminum which I will pass along and which soon should be reflected on their website.

In their words, "the aluminium parts will be anodised instead of powder coated. After considering the two options, we decided the anodised route is the better fit for our approach - less maintenance down the road and no risk of flaking in the long term. That's one of the minor changes we may have hinted but has no impact on our user end."

JohnW wrote:Just heard back from Option-O. In their words, "the aluminium parts will be anodised instead of powder coated. After considering the two options, we decided the anodised route is the better fit for our approach - less maintenance down the road and no risk of flaking in the long term. That's one of the minor changes we may have hinted but has no impact on our user end."

I like this change even though there are plus and minuses to either type of coating.
And much depends on the care taken in the application of each.

ncrc51 wrote:The Mon Con has an excellent established reputation, made with great care in the U.S., beautifully engineered and clearly capable of producing world class results in the cup. Also, the footprint appears smaller than the Stance Motor and that could be important for some users. The Stance is a bit of a gamble at the early stage. Even with burrs bigger may not always produce better results. However, the Stance looks to have the overall advantage and may impact interest and sales of the Mon Con, but will unlikely have any impact on the Monolith Flat or Flat Max. I think I'd be most happy with either conical.

I would agree. If the Helor Stance is as well-aligned as the Monolith Conical, I would imagine little or no difference in the cup between the two. TiN coating probably will not make much of a difference either. I have a very-well aligned HG1, with 83mm burrs, and it is pretty much indistinguishable from Monolith Conical in the cup. I have the TiN coated Italmill burrs in my HG1, which I feel are a little brighter than the Mazzer burrs. This may mitigate the difference between my two grinders.

It is great that there are other manufacturers embracing large-burred, well-aligned, single dosing grinders with negligible retention.

Javier wrote:The Monolith Conical has 68mm burrs, while Helor Stance has 83mm Mazzer burrs. And both grinders comprise high-end construction and materials, while emphasizing alignment. So theoretically the Helor Stance is capable of achieving higher extraction yield than the Monolith Conical, right?

Hi Javier, I don't believe the extraction yield has to do with burrs size, and it was probably limited by the burrs geometry/design instead. While I like that bigger usually equals better, I don't think I found any meaningful difference here (without doing a blind tasting and fully season both to the same level). Perhaps we get a slightly longer life span from the burrs but do really we need that?

Also, while I did put up the EY% results, it's a mean to access consistency, and I personally am strongly against using that number as a taste indicator in any way. Refractometer just measures a specific part of the coffee fluid and can be greatly affected by a myriads of factors (beans,roast,dsitribution, extraction parameters etc). In my case, I felt that the 83mm and 68mm are too close apart to tell from noise - perhaps I can endeavor to perform a blind taste test this weekend but if I had to strain to tell them side-by-side, it won't be a meaningful difference then.

speedplay wrote:What advantages would the Monolith conical have over the Helor Stance Motor?

Basically what Louis (ncrc51) said. The Monolith has built a track record and is slightly more compact (slightly less deep) especially with the new upgrades. The Helor has proven themselves in the premium hand grinder section but this high-end grinders seems to be a new territory for them. If they do maintain their QC they will have a very compelling grinder.

With the Stance's design, you can easily access and check/verify the burrs alignment and there's nothing to hide - something that can be a pro/con to the users and company. As for alignment, I really had hoped I could access the burrs and verify the alignment on Monolith, but the results did assure me they are up to par.

So are you guys pre-ordering just the motor kit or the whole grinder + motor kit? Isn't the grinder available now, and the motor adaptable to the grinder?