Hand (grinder) Jive - a photo essay - Page 146

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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peacecup

#1451: Post by peacecup »

Good luck with the new grinders. I have a blue PeDe like that - at least 50 years old and still in daily use for espresso at the office. It went head-to-head with Robur some years ago and keeps brewing strong. Aesthetics in espressso, as in life in general, are vastly under-rated. Especially ironic in espresso, since a good deal of the experience has to do with the subjective quality of taste. Doin' the crazy hand jive

PC
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

rivenstock

#1452: Post by rivenstock »

I spent way too much time on this thread! Great stuff. I recently made a new box for a Peugoet grinder with some nice figured walnut. A great first grinder for my son.

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TomC
Team HB

#1453: Post by TomC »

rivenstock wrote:I spent way too much time on this thread! Great stuff. I recently made a new box for a Peugoet grinder with some nice figured walnut. A great first grinder for my son.
Welcome to HB Steve! That's really cool and unique!

NDondlinger

#1454: Post by NDondlinger »

I thought I played all of my cards right. I picked up a Dienes Mokka, Model 610, in really great shape. It has the "6-point" inner burr, no wobble, works great—except, it won't grind fine enough for my La Peppina!

I dis/reassembled multiple times, adjusting the bottom support/carrier just so. Got the growl to sound pretty even throughout the full rotation, and tightened the burrs to within a quarter-turn of their life, but no dice.

I'm really surprised, as I can barely see a sliver of daylight between the burrs when they're all snugged up.

Is there anything more extensive I can do regarding burr adjustment to get it finer?

I do like the uniform grind, and it's lighter and fluffier than anything I've seen. If I pinch some up I can barely feel it. Also, pucks coming out of the Peppina on these test shots are more uniform, compact and held-together than I have ever seen.... they're just letting the extraction go way too fast.

Has anyone gone deeper into hot-rodding these grinders for espresso before just moving onto the next one that will "hopefully work"? Thanks.



NDondlinger

#1455: Post by NDondlinger »

To follow up, more specifically:

Has anyone here been able to personally validate the theory that continuing to use an old steel burr mill at it's finest setting, over time, will produce a finer and finer grind as the burrs sort of mesh to each other and create a tighter tolerance?

In theory, it sounds possible. But has this been debunked? Are we talking about 10+ years of doing this to see any noticeable difference? Are there mechanical ways to reduce this timeline without destroying the burrs and/or seeing diminishing returns to performance?

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peacecup

#1456: Post by peacecup »

I guess you could try attaching a drill to it and testing the theory. I never did that. My 10+ year old grinders have not gotten worse and may have gotten better. Sure is a good looker though.
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

maxbmello

#1457: Post by maxbmello »

I think that's part of the mystique with vintage hand grinders - some work for espresso, some don't. Even ones that supposedly should be perfect, like yours, won't, but other older beat up ones will.

No suggestions on how to make this one work for you, just keep searching and buying ones until you find one that does :) Luxkily it is a fairly inexpensive hobby!

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cuppajoe

#1458: Post by cuppajoe »

NDondlinger wrote:To follow up, more specifically:

Has anyone here been able to personally validate the theory that continuing to use an old steel burr mill at it's finest setting, over time, will produce a finer and finer grind as the burrs sort of mesh to each other and create a tighter tolerance?

In theory, it sounds possible. But has this been debunked? Are we talking about 10+ years of doing this to see any noticeable difference? Are there mechanical ways to reduce this timeline without destroying the burrs and/or seeing diminishing returns to performance?
If it grinds fine enough that it feels like fine powder, I'd say it's probably not the grinder. It should be well broken in by now if it wasn't NOS. I had one just like that and it produced grinds that worked with a variety of machines. Are you able to get 'normal' pulls from other grinders? If so, then if you can match the grind from the Dienes to one of the others, should pull about the same.

What is your dose? I have been starting to use a Comocafe(sorta Peppina clone) that I just refurb'd and it is a very different experience than any of the other vintage levers I've used. The spring is quite strong, and the piston seems to have lots of travel. Was getting fast pulls at first, so up-dosed to 13.5g and grind with a vintage Tre Spade ball grinder. Extraction still seems fairly fast, but getting decent creme and the espresso has nice mouth feel. I do a 1/2 Fellini to get two demitasses.
David - LMWDP 448

My coffee wasn't strong enough to defend itself - Tom Waits

NDondlinger

#1459: Post by NDondlinger »

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I have pulled plenty of great shots on the peppina. I've always dosed heavily in the double basket (usually around 15-16g) and could choke it to where I needed to assist the piston by helping the lever up.

Now, this was all with an embarrassing Porlex knockoff that was like $10. Ceramic burr with plastic parts that eventually failed completely. That led me to purchase the dienes. So I know the old grinder was wildly inconsistent and am now thinking that it was just producing enough fines to build pressure.

Like I said, the pucks I've made with the dienes are a visual improvement over the old grinder, for sure. But I just can't quite prevent the gushers. Best I could manage so far is about a 15 sec pull, whereas I was closer to 30 secs before.

I'm going to continue tinkering with this until another deal pops up.

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grog

#1460: Post by grog »

Maybe post a photo of a grounds pile, so we can get an idea of fineness? As David said, if it's nearly powder, that should be more than capable of choking the Peppina.

On your dose, you're doing 15-16g in the double basket and it's pouring fast? That's weird for sure...unless the beans are stale? If beans are fresh, makes me wonder if you have a seal and/or gasket issue on the Peppina.
LMWDP #514