Hand grinder effort and time for specific burrs.

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
MCal2003

#1: Post by MCal2003 »

In my search to find a grinder for V60 use only I came across a review video that has me confused. The grinder was the Kinu series. The presenter noted Kinu has an option for a pour over specific burr. He noted expect more effort and time to grind the same amount of beans vs. the std. burr. I would expect a lighter roast, finer grind to take more effort and time and a pour over burr to require less effort and time for a specific coffee.

In this specific case is it the design of the burr? For a grinder like the 1Zpresso K-Pro(on the short list) would it not be so. That is, grinding for V60 vs. espresso should be quicker and easier.
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BSdV

#2: Post by BSdV »

Haven't seen that video but I assume the reviewer/presenter has tried both standard and pour over/brew burr.

Using my Comandante C40 for brew takes considerable less effort than when grinding for espresso. Time it takes me is roughly the same but only because for brew I grind the double amount as I am grinding for espresso. And lighter roasts definitely require more effort to grind than darker roast due to the bean being much more dense and less brittle.

FWIW, the comandante C40 is a fantastic hand grinder for pour over, and I expect this to be one of the best options out there. Very nice and uniform grinding with little amount of fines. Very rarely have I had a muddy looking coffee grinds bed after making V60. It's not the fastest grinder, others win on speed - but if the grinding results are as good - I'm not so sure. After around 3 years of almost daily use and approx 75ish kg's medium roast coffee beans, its burr set still looks like new. It may have lost some of its sharpness, but not much.
I'm using it now for espresso as I'm off the V60 for the time being, happy with the results as well but pour over is where in my opinion this grinder excels ..

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TigerStripes

#3: Post by TigerStripes »

I enjoy pour over with the regular kinu espresso burr. It grinds 25g very quickly. Similar to the niche zero, the standard kinu burr may not make pour over that everyone loves, but I quite like it
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Yan

#4: Post by Yan »

MCal2003 wrote:He noted expect more effort and time to grind the same amount of beans vs. the std. burr. I would expect a lighter roast, finer grind to take more effort and time and a pour over burr to require less effort and time for a specific coffee.
There's a sample grinds 35gr with M47 PO Burr with different settings (Aeropress, Pour over, Chemex/FP) and times...

New Kinu M47 Traveler

pham

#5: Post by pham »

I have the Kinu pourover burrs installed right now, they require WAY less force to grind than the espresso burr but are correspondingly also WAY slower. Results in cup are very odd, they extract extremely low and have muddy beds making you think you did something wrong, but taste quality is quite high and flavor and texture is extremely delicate. They can produce exceptional results but they are counter intuitive to dial in and the flavor profile is not for everyone

The espresso burr can produce exceptional results on filter as well, I don't think any worse than a C40 but perhaps a bit less intuitive to work with as well

MCal2003 (original poster)

#6: Post by MCal2003 (original poster) »

Over the decades have accumulate, sold, and given away a handful of hand grinders. From my 1st grinder, the Salter Spong to a ~2 decade old Zassenhaus Turkish mill. PeDe, KYM, Trossers, Dienes, Trespade.... None capable of the grind quality of the Macap M7 for any style of coffee. Sort of gave up on hand grinders about the time OE came out with their hand grinders. The Spong is a capable pepper mill. Actually marketed as both a coffee and pepper mill. Hint... maybe not a good coffee mill.

"Offline" for a few years. Boom... The explosion of what looks to be quality hand grinders

Was and maybe still am considering the Lagom Mini. But their website no longer has the 38mm burr model listed. Just the 48mm Obsidian and Moonshine burr option at the premium $374 + shipping and tax. Guessing over $400. V60 is a cold weather mid-day drink. Not my primary coffee beverage. So, thinking hand grinder at no more than ~$250 range.

Comandante C40, a bit too expensive. Price paid for quality Made in Germany construction. But too close in price to Lagom Mini when the 38mm burr was available. Looks like the 1Zpresso K series was designed more for pour over. Why the K-Pro is on the short list. Kinu M47 Simplicity @$269(Prima Coffee, the video source) stretches the budget. Not much of short list right now. Just the K-Pro and Simplicity. Paralysis by analysis, into the Black Hole of coffee grinders....Have the time. Will monitor prices, used markets, feedback. Maybe Lagom will bring back the 38mm burr to complicate my choices.
LMWDP #151

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JB90068
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#7: Post by JB90068 »

Lance Hendrick just posted this hand grinder review where he talks about the pluses and minuses of each grinder for both pour over and espresso. It's lengthy but you may find it worthwhile.
Old baristas never die. They just become over extracted.

MCal2003 (original poster)

#8: Post by MCal2003 (original poster) »

Thanks for the link.
Another reviewer that seems to have positive comments regarding the 1ZPresso and Kinu.

Hendrick, Hoffmann, Rowsell all seem to be respected reviewers.

User interface/function, build quality and most important cup quality are personally the most important elements. Aesthetics, weight are secondary.
The list is now down to the Commandant C40, Kinu Simplicity, and 1ZPresso K-Pro. $ difference might be the final element.
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Yan

#9: Post by Yan »

MCal2003 wrote:The list is now down to the Commandant C40, Kinu Simplicity, and 1ZPresso K-Pro. $ difference might be the final element.
Selecting C40 vs M47 are easy if you won't using hand grinder for manual/electric espresso in the future go with C40, else go with M47, for taste wise M47 tends to better in mouthfeel/body, sweetness and C40 more about clarity, notes separation.

iyayy

#10: Post by iyayy »

kpro works well for espresso. using it more than a year and half already. dial the clicks and fine tune with dose for the shots.
i like it for both light and dark roasts over my arco italmill. wont go brew at all with italmill, i dont find much difference than cheap ceramics hand grinder on that. coffee is thicker with it compared to kpro even on same dose/time/yield for both espresso and brew regardless. less colorful beans, and strong dark coffee drinker may like it. it seems to be slightly on sweeter side for those non acidic roasts, but any acid taste turns sour very quick.

for efforts, italmill is slightly easier and grinds faster. both are harder and takes much longer time for espresso regardless.