G-IOTA / DF64 espresso grinder - Page 53

#521: Post by **Giampiero** » May 4th, 2021, 1:32 am

handonam wrote:I'm going to be upgrading from a Baratza Vario (54mm ceramic flat burrs), and had already placed a preorder for a Niche to come next month to the US. I'm primarily an espresso-drinker, using my chemex probably like 10% of the time. Preferring the chocolate roasty notes.

Should i go for the DF64 and get the red speed burrs given my situation? Saving money vs a Niche isn't a major concern for me, nor is timing.

Other question is: How serviceable do you think this grinder is vs the niche? I'm liking the fact that I can buy Vario parts directly from their site, and there's a lot of details for them around (including the interesting Vario Alicorn discussion).

If your main concern are spare parts, i can say that given the quite robust ( basically only the dosing cup is in "plastic") and simple building design of the G-IOTA, unless you will throwing it on the floor, it will last a lot of time in home use, maybe just contact your local distributor for further.
I can't say a word on Niche due to i never used it, but if you like the chocolate roasty note, probably a flat burr could match with your expectation.
I mostly drink Italian blend dark roasted beans ( imported) or a local dark roasted Arabica and with the DF64 ( G-IOTA/ TURIN/ SOLO) i got excellent result for my palate.

#522: Post by **MattSn** » May 4th, 2021, 4:08 am

I'v been following this topic for a while and since i'm already using this grinder for a few weeks I just want to share how i'm placing dosing cup with funnel so it is even closer to the grinder exit.

May 4th, 2021, 12:14 pm

I do this, too. Great minds. I also put my portafilter here when dosing directly.

#524: Post by **Spitz.me** » May 4th, 2021, 12:49 pm

I'm also curious about the potential gains in-the-cup to moving from a Baratza Vario to the G-IOTA. I've had the Vario since 2009, but stopped using it altogether for espresso in 2012. It's been a while...

I pulled out the Vario and put the ceramic burrs back in to set it up for shots almost 10 years later. For about a week now, I've stopped using my Niche. I just prefer the flavour profile from the Vario - I guess I prefer the flat burr profile? I'm pulling Italian roasts and more medium/light roasts as well. Regardless, I prefer the Vario profile. I mostly stopped using the Vario because of slipping settings and other contributors to near daily frustration with the grinder. Perhaps oddly, however, since I upgraded the faceplate and installed shims for the levers, I haven't had the frustrations in the last few weeks that I encountered early on. What I'm saying is, I think I'm just happy for now since I expect the Vario to become frustrating at some point...

I guess the larger question is really, does the burr size ALWAYS matter, or does it only really matter at a certain size difference? Sure, we can speak about alignment, but since I'm not going to align the Vario, let's just assume a common Vario in-the-cup profile for those who have experience with it.

Anyone?

#525: Post by **darrenho** » May 4th, 2021, 3:05 pm

*I've only had my DF64 for less than 2 weeks. No significant amounts of coffee beans (< 2 lbs) has gone thru it yet. (i.e. not fully break in yet.)
**I've had my Niche Zero (NZ) for about a year.

I was trying to pull shots comparing the taste between DF64 and NZ using the same bean (L-M roasts), same weight (18g) and same espresso machine aiming 36g out in 30 secs (counting from 1st drip of coffee to finish).
- The grounds: The grounds of NZ seemed puffer than the DF64. (The amounts of grounds in the portafilter were a bit more than the DF64.) This was also noticed when doing distribution in the portafilter using my distribution tool. I know it can not be directly compared like this, but, my goal was to achieve the same output weight in the same (or close) time (seconds).
- Clumping: Little to none. No RDT needed in my case.
- The taste (early impressions): The taste from DF64 was not very impressive initially, with a bit of sour and bitter taste; while the NZ was more mouthful with a good/rich body, and the after taste was a bit sweeter.

Just wanted to share my personal experience with the DF64 so far. Will continue to break in the grinder and do the taste comparison with my NZ.
Cheers.

darrenho wrote:
Just got my DF64 on 4/24 (I'm on the west coast.). It was ordered on 4/5 on Alibaba then shipped on 4/12 from China thru air. Amanda is the customer service. She was great by the way. I opted for TiN coated burrs.
First impression upon unboxing: The build quality of the grinder is pretty solid. However, upon close inspection, I saw some tiny pitting in the metal funnel/throttle. A bit surprised and disappointed, but for the price I would just live with it. It wouldn't affect the performance of the grinder nor the tastes in the cup of course. The burrs were found to be in excellent conditions.
Amanda mentioned on the exchanged messages stating that they calibrated the burrs before shipping. I used some marker tests on the bottom burr, and found the burrs were pretty much calibrated (not 100% perfect, but within a tolerance I can accept.).
My first 18g coffee went in and came out at about 17.3g (with 5 to 8 pumps on the bellows), which was about 0.7g in retention. Not bad at all! Then I ran another 3 batches of 18g in, and came out pretty close to 18g in all 3 runs. Very happy with the retention performance.
I'm still breaking in the grinder and haven't got a chance yet to compare the tastes of the DF64 to my Niche Zero. Planning to do so after running a couple lbs of coffee thru the DF64.

#526: Post by **LObin** » May 4th, 2021, 4:15 pm

darrenho wrote:*I've only had my DF64 for less than 2 weeks. No significant amounts of coffee beans (< 2 lbs) has gone thru it yet. (i.e. not fully break in yet.)
**I've had my Niche Zero (NZ) for about a year.

I was trying to pull shots comparing the taste between DF64 and NZ using the same bean (L-M roasts), same weight (18g) and same espresso machine aiming 36g out in 30 secs (counting from 1st drip of coffee to finish).
- The grounds: The grounds of NZ seemed puffer than the DF64. (The amounts of grounds in the portafilter were a bit more than the DF64.) This was also noticed when doing distribution in the portafilter using my distribution tool. I know it can not be directly compared like this, but, my goal was to achieve the same output weight in the same (or close) time (seconds).
- Clumping: Little to none. No RDT needed in my case.
- The taste (early impressions): The taste from DF64 was not very impressive initially, with a bit of sour and bitter taste; while the NZ was more mouthful with a good/rich body, and the after taste was a bit sweeter.

Just wanted to share my personal experience with the DF64 so far. Will continue to break in the grinder and do the taste comparison with my NZ.
Cheers.

My results when comparing my NZ to my G-iota have been different.

I posted my impressions earlier on here:
Single dose grinder options

LObin wrote:I'm copying something I posted in the Europiccola FB group regarding the same topic:

"I've had my NZ for 2 years now. No complaints whatsoever. I did wonder what flat burrs and even what a grinder with burrs that are more "modern roast" oriented would bring vs my NZ. The Lagom P64 is out of budget for me so the G-iota was the answer.

Again, I might add SSP HU or multipurpose later down the road but with the stock Italmill Tin burrs aligned, I'm already super happy with the results. Didn't even put 1kg of coffee through the burrs yet. Things will only get better.

As far as workflow, the G-iota is not as easy as the Niche Zero but I don't think any other single doser is, really.

Next to no retention with the blower (that's an extra step) and I have a wide range of adjustment for espresso thus far (as low as 8-10 for a few light roasts and up to 25 for medium-dark stuff). Grind consistency is very good too.

It's a little messier than the NZ and has more static. I do RDT although it's not an obligation. I does help however.

Compared to the Niche Zero, on my Londinium, the G-iota burrs definitely produce a sweeter cup. More balance and more fruit forward. Even my wife noticed it after the 1st cup.
With the NZ, when making an oat milk latte for her, I would either pull a ristretto or remove the cup a bit early to have a lower ratio of coffee to milk.
So far, with the G-iota, she's enjoyed every cup. Whether the grind is tighter or looser, she prefers the sweetness of the flat burrs.

That being said, I've always preferred the shots from my Niche Zero when pulled from my Europiccola vs my Londinium. I guess the lower extraction pressure and softer curve helps sweetening the stronger notes produced by the 63mm mazzer conical burrs of the Niche Zero.

I have yet to try the G-iota with my Europiccola but I love the shots I'm getting at the moment coupled with the NZ.
"
Hope this helps!

Cheers!

Wondering if it's due to the burrs needing to be seasoned further more or simply a difference in taste perception.

A quick thought, have you checked your burrs alignement?

#527: Post by **darrenho** » May 4th, 2021, 5:34 pm

Thank you, Jonathan, for sharing your experience on DF64 vs. NZ.
I guess "Taste impressions" are subjective, and the results may vary drastically depending on the beans. I was just trying to express how I felt in the cup from these two. I will give it more time to seasoning the burrs (TiN in my case) and compare the two down the road.

*I did check the burrs alignment (using markers) when I got the DF64, but only the bottom burr though. It was not too far off so I didn't bother making any adjustments. I will do another alignment check in a couple weeks.

LObin wrote:My results when comparing my NZ to my G-iota have been different.

I posted my impressions earlier on here:
Single dose grinder options

Wondering if it's due to the burrs needing to be seasoned further more or simply a difference in taste perception.

A quick thought, have you checked your burrs alignement?

#528: Post by **GregoryJ** » May 4th, 2021, 5:39 pm

LObin wrote:
I found a funnel that fits perfectly on top of the dosing cup. No more grounds all around my G-iota.

I believe it's also available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SBM57GW/re ... FQ07YQQ1NR

I got the one from Amazon and it fits very well. I can puff with confidence now!

#529: Post by **cskorton** » May 4th, 2021, 5:43 pm

How many pounds of beans are suggested to properly season burrs? I've heard anything from 1 to 20lbs lol

#530: Post by **LObin** » May 4th, 2021, 6:18 pm

darrenho wrote:Thank you, Jonathan, for sharing your experience on DF64 vs. NZ.
I guess "Taste impressions" are subjective, and the results may vary drastically depending on the beans. I was just trying to express how I felt in the cup from these two. I will give it more time to seasoning the burrs (TiN in my case) and compare the two down the road.

*I did check the burrs alignment (using markers) when I got the DF64, but only the bottom burr though. It was not too far off so I didn't bother making any adjustments. I will do another alignment check in a couple weeks.

You're so right. Hard to imagine anything that's more subjective than taste!

I also have the TiN burrs in mine. I aligned 2 units so far and according to my own experience and other members who have aligned their G-iota's, the bottom burr is always right on or needs about 1 shim. The top burr is always more problematic. I had to use 3 shims on one unit and close to 10 on the other one.

Right now, your bottom burr is aligned with the highest point of your top burr. I don't how much effect on taste excellent alignement and full seasoning will do but it can't hurt.