G-IOTA / DF64 espresso grinder - Page 67

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
heytchap

#661: Post by heytchap »

Given the necessity to mod and upgrade, I feel that I can make these calls:

Niche is to iOS and Apple as DF64 is to Android and Google.

LObin

#662: Post by LObin »

I find his DF64 review to be quite honest. Just like his other reviews.

Anyone that has read through this thread or even better, owns one, is aware of the quirks and little annoyances J. Hoffman's mentioned. There's been plenty of discussions, modifications and 3D files posted here and elsewhere.

Being also a Niche Zero owner, I agree that the G-iota is not as simple and the overall user experience is just better with the Niche. However, I use my NZ on the weekends at the cottage while my G-iota sits pretty firmly on the front seat. Why? Better coffee. That's all.

Another point where I have to agree with him is when he says he prefers the espresso from the G-iota (with stock burrs) and even the pour overs, which he says "have been pretty nice". Better than the Wilfa and the Ode, which is surprising but speaks for itself.

Now, I have to disagree with his conclusion that someone who owns a G-iota may/would eventually think about upgrading. If you read through most of the posts on here and elsewhere, people are usually getting this because the Lagom P64 is too expensive and/or too much if a hassle to acquire. Unless there is eventually a better built grinder with similar grind qualities, priced closer to the G-iota than the Lagom, upgrading is not an easy task. Especially if you are an "in the cup purist" and want to give up single dosing.

And finding a used Lagom P64... not for crazy money? Good luck with that.

So, I guess I consider myself part of the "in the cup purist" that will work on improving the DF64 user experience with RDT, one or two 3D printed parts and SSP burrs.... why not!
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mdmitch2
Supporter ♡

#663: Post by mdmitch2 »

mtbizzle wrote:I think would be a really helpful comparison for many people, relatively limited options at this price range. I would try comparing by focusing on the Niche for traditional espresso, medium and dark roast, standard flow rates. Giota with MP burrs aligned, with light roasts, fast flow. I think they will give quite different results for those two use cases. Would be interesting to see how far out side of their comfort zones the grinders perform well.
I'll see what I can do! Maybe it's time to start that youtube channel... :wink:

zellleonhart

#664: Post by zellleonhart »

mtbizzle wrote:Note the 64mm unimodal and Unimodal multipurpose SSP burrs are FAST flow burrs, the same style as the 98mm SSP high uniformity burrs. Many will say, these do not work especially well/perform their best, with the flow rate (time) that you use e.g. with a conical. Many will say with a lot of conviction that these burrs are suited for turbo shots and much faster flow than the "18 in 36 out in 30 seconds" idea.

If you have giota with multipurpose burrs, try fast flow turbo shots - eg closer to 3-4mL/s after fast preinfusion, rather than half that flow rate. Chasing a "normal" flow rate shot arguably will lead to grinding much too fine, and frustration

https://strivefortone.com/2020/09/19/lo ... -espresso/
I have discovered the turbo shots recently and as I use a pair of SSP multipurpose burrs, I can try this. However, my case is a bit unique, I like to drink light and medium-light roast milk drinks, almost exclusively. I don't really drink straight espresso shots or americano (I prefer pour over than that).

Hence I'd still like to have decent body in my shot to cut through milk while having a sweet cup. So far I have been using some sort of blooming profile with very fine grind to try to extract more of it while maintaining 1:2 ratio (e.g. 16g to 30g~32g). Does fast flow turbo shots work for 1:2 ratio?

DamianWarS
Supporter ♡

#665: Post by DamianWarS »

LObin wrote:I find his DF64 review to be quite honest. Just like his other reviews.

Anyone that has read through this thread or even better, owns one, is aware of the quirks and little annoyances J. Hoffman's mentioned. There's been plenty of discussions, modifications and 3D files posted here and elsewhere.

Being also a Niche Zero owner, I agree that the G-iota is not as simple and the overall user experience is just better with the Niche. However, I use my NZ on the weekends at the cottage while my G-iota sits pretty firmly on the front seat. Why? Better coffee. That's all.

Another point where I have to agree with him is when he says he prefers the espresso from the G-iota (with stock burrs) and even the pour overs, which he says "have been pretty nice". Better than the Wilfa and the Ode, which is surprising but speaks for itself.

Now, I have to disagree with his conclusion that someone who owns a G-iota may/would eventually think about upgrading. If you read through most of the posts on here and elsewhere, people are usually getting this because the Lagom P64 is too expensive and/or too much if a hassle to acquire. Unless there is eventually a better built grinder with similar grind qualities, priced closer to the G-iota than the Lagom, upgrading is not an easy task. Especially if you are an "in the cup purist" and want to give up single dosing.

And finding a used Lagom P64... not for crazy money? Good luck with that.

So, I guess I consider myself part of the "in the cup purist" that will work on improving the DF64 user experience with RDT, one or two 3D printed parts and SSP burrs.... why not!
Hoffmann has a clear bias and he seems apprehensive to admit this is a good grinder. The conclusion I got was it's a good grind, it's a good cup, but I don't like the grinder. In Indonesia, it's called the Impresso Push and I've been considering for a while picking it up because I didn't know how well the stock burrs performed. So I appreciate Hoffmann using the stock burrs and I can interpret the layers he presents to know it is in class with the niche at least in what it produces. It feels like the video calls for a blind cupping and then nothing happened so I was a little disapointed with that. I wonder if it filmed it and didn't like the results so cut it out. in any case I went ahead and ordered it, it's IDR 5,000,000 here which converts to USD $350. I would say not a bad deal.

Sooster

#666: Post by Sooster »

Lot of fair points about this grinder from JH today. I've had this grinder for about the past month, coming from a Lido ET. Put in SSP high uniformity's practically on day one, been (trying) to pull 4 shots/day with it with improving success. Break-in is real y'all. I'm gradually taking a real liking to it though.

How have people's experiences using the Mythos clump crusher been? I've been trying some alternative 3DP patterns/shapes in place of the silicone flaps with some varying degrees in improvement. Kinda feels like there is a trade-off between static and clumping, but the toothed shapes that try to copy the Mythos seems to be giving me the best results so far (top left in the second picture). Very fluffy grinds, a little on the staticy side, but I always use RDT (I find squirting easier than sweeping). It also feels like there may be slightly less initial build-up around this area compared to the double flap, but I haven't weighed it to verify. From the Mythos video , looks like having a degree of flex in the teeth would be beneficial, but that's difficult to print at home. Link to the files if people are interested in trying them out. Open to feedback if anyone's got any!

As an aside regarding the flappers, I don't really understand the need for a spacer...? I've ran it without any flaps (naked) with no spacer no problem. Before doing that though, I looked through the inside of the threaded holes from the burr carrier region and could not see any bolt sticking out in the path of the sweepers. Even, if you take out the screw from the chute and just directly screw it through the hole, the bolt does indeed poke its shaft all the way out, impeding the sweepers. So after making any flap modifications, I always spun the burrs by hand to make sure there was no contact before firing her up. However for all of this, I never put the front faceplate back on; is the that the primary issue with needing a spacer?




^^had to sneak this one in, pretty proud of my first burr alignment ever lol.

jefegold

#667: Post by jefegold »

The only other grinder to compare may be the Kopi Deva which is still being developed in the UK by Brandon Wong, an Australian motorsport engineer.
Sounds like it solves (or will in the final version) a lot of Mr. Hoffmann's issues the DS64 has, but it is more expensive. It also runs on battery power which is interesting. If you plan on moving from a 110V country to a 220V one, or vice-versa, this is a nice solution.

It'll probably be around the same price as the Niche. https://www.kopiconcepts.com It's got a kickstarter campaign going now. I'm really interested in it, but also do not want to be the guinea pig for $700-$800. This forum has been amazing at clarifying the value of the DS64/G-iota/Solo, and convinced me that it's well worth it if you can get it at $400 or so.

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ethiopianbuffman

#668: Post by ethiopianbuffman »

You can't do a blind taste between the DF64 and Niche because it is flat vs conical and would be able to tell it apart easily. I think definitely blind taste between Ode and Wilfa and DF64 can be done and to some extent it seems like he did do it because he made subtle references that the DF64 beats them, not in looks or asthetics on your bench, but in the cup.

Once you start throwing SSP in the mix, I bet they are all the same and just come down to alignment and workflow.

DamianWarS
Supporter ♡

#669: Post by DamianWarS » replying to ethiopianbuffman »

I'm sure a trained palate like Hoffman could tell the difference between conical and flat so immediately would be able to identify the grinder if it were just Niche and DF64 then a confirmation bias (as JH would put it) would set in. But I think the video still is left with that void. he praises the niche and comments on how both produce good grinds for espresso and filter but seems to avoids the question of which produces a better cup. It may be too much like apples and oranges to compare the, however, I would be interested in blind cupping that includes the DF64 down the road. I see he still has his Specialita in the back which he never really talked about in the previous video and maybe he's going to do a showdown of midranges or trending grinders.

basiecally

#670: Post by basiecally »

I'll try again.

I see some of the retailers selling SSP multi purpose burrs for this grinder as being FOR this grinder. But a previous poster informed me that there are no burrs made specifically for this grinder by SSP. And also that the SSP burrs for the Mazzer 64mm grinders do not fit the lower burr carrier, having a 1mm smaller ID than the DF64.

So which SSP burr set is right for this grinder and which other grinders on the market does it fit?

By the way, I just placed my order for a black DF64 from bohnendealer yesterday when I saw Hoffman had posted his video. I had almost made up my mind before but I felt I had to decide quick before the Hoffman effect took hold of the stock of this thing... :)