G-IOTA / DF64 espresso grinder - Page 150

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Skittle1605
Posts: 6
Joined: 1 year ago

#1491: Post by Skittle1605 »

GDM528 wrote:A filter paper disk in the bottom of the basket should keep the fines out of your cup, and those disks are becoming more common with online retailers. Barring that, I've found that metering the flow of beans into the grinder can strongly affect the quantity of fines produced - to the point where I've had to significantly dial down the grind setting to compensate. You can test with your particular roast by trickling in the beans by hand. The one downside I've found to reduced fines is fussier shot dynamics: harder to dial in and maintain. Despite that, I don't think I'll ever go back to dumping in the entire dose at once and overloading the burrs.
Yeah the paper filters kind of a no-go. I don't want to make "making coffee" even more complex for a person who just drinks the stuff and is not looking for a hobby. And I have to admit, I too am starting to approach my limits on how complex I am willing to make the workflow.

The bean flow idea though sounds interesting. I would assume there are some tried and tested mods for this too? I even found some metal plate thing on some EU-website, but that seems a tad hazardous.

Jonk
Posts: 2115
Joined: 4 years ago

#1492: Post by Jonk »

You can see the metal disc in action here:
I don't think it works well, mostly due to the DF64's high RPM. Here the original inspiration for comparison:

Skittle1605
Posts: 6
Joined: 1 year ago

#1493: Post by Skittle1605 »

Jonk wrote:You can see the metal disc in action here:
video
I don't think it works well, mostly due to the DF64's high RPM. Here the original inspiration for comparison:
video
Came to the same conclusion reading more about the subject. The feeder needs a more elaborate design which has been designed on a different topic here. Too bad I don't own a 3D printer and last time I asked about the prices it was nowhere near reasonable option (like 200€ for couple of small prints with designs all ready to be printed).

The "feeding by hand" is always an option which I might test, but I think the inconsistency is a deal breaker for the long term. Fun test to be done nonetheless.

I'm starting to feel I might be too lazy to use a DF64 and deal with all its' quirks. The machine is fine, but could benefit from someone who is willing to tinker more than me. At the end of the day what I want from the grinder is:
- Be consistent in quality
- Don't produce a ton of fines
- Once set up for a specific bean in use, be just a "press a button" machine

All of these "flaws" are fixable with 3D printer (expensive) or modifying workflow (a new variable and a nuisance), but maybe it's just me that has found my limits in term of what I am willing to do for a cup of coffee.

Still by far the best machine for me and my budget, but I just need to accept a few sacrifaces for the sake of user experience. Even if it means I drink inferior espresso.

gordinho
Posts: 20
Joined: 4 years ago

#1494: Post by gordinho »

This has always been my hesitancy with this grinder (and 83) too, it seems like the users end up fixing things that manufacturer should have figured out. That said, the grinder's landscape is now quite different than what it was a year ago!

GDM528
Posts: 830
Joined: 2 years ago

#1495: Post by GDM528 »

Skittle1605 wrote:Yeah the paper filters kind of a no-go. I don't want to make "making coffee" even more complex for a person who just drinks the stuff and is not looking for a hobby. And I have to admit, I too am starting to approach my limits on how complex I am willing to make the workflow.
I started using filter paper inserts to simplify my workflow - which includes cleanup. I use a bottomless portafilter, and the paper stops any jets of espresso from spraying the area around the cup. I set a filter paper on the top of the grind, which keeps the shower screen spotless. I've eliminated the post-shot wipe-down process.

salseiro
Posts: 2
Joined: 1 year ago

#1496: Post by salseiro »

Hi there! Just like one of the previous posters I did not read all 200 pages, so I'm sorry if I may be missing something that has already been discussed.

So, I recently purchased a DF64, found the zero point, made the three springs flush with the collars, as someone suggested and screwed the top back on. No mods so far. The grinder came supposedly aligned (and the zero is indeed slightly to the left of the centre, which someone said is about where it supposedly should be for a properly aligned DF64). As I'm still waiting for my pre-ordered espresso machine I decided to put it to good use with a V60 I have. I quickly found out that I was only able to have the brew flow out within 3 minutes, as per the recipe I've been doing for a while with my good old Capresso Infinity, I need to set it pretty coarse. Along the lines of 75 or so. The coffee turns out both quite bitter and bland despite the grains I'm using being a lighter roast Ethiopia that normally gives quite a lot of (balanced) acidity when extracted well. Observing the ground coffee, it looks to me like a mixture of fines and a lot of really coarse bits, which look like they belong in a French press. So, my assumption is that the coarse bits get underextracted and the fines, overextracted. Hence the pungent taste mixed with blandness. What could be the issue here? Is it just because the grinder is not broken in yet? Or because the seller lied and the burrs are not aligned? Any other ideas?

Thank you!

Jonk
Posts: 2115
Joined: 4 years ago

#1497: Post by Jonk »

This could be a lot of things. If you've got the stock Italmill burrs, know that they're not exactly the first choice for V60. You're using beans from an origin known for clogging filters and yes, seasoning matters.

I'd say you're better off grinding at a finer setting, to get a more even grind. You're going to end up with quite a few fines anyway. Then just accept a longer drawdown or try to adjust other factors like filter paper, pouring technique and so on.

salseiro
Posts: 2
Joined: 1 year ago

#1498: Post by salseiro »

Jonk wrote:This could be a lot of things. ... Then just accept a longer drawdown or try to adjust other factors like filter paper, pouring technique and so on.
Thank you for your reply. It does look a lot more uniform as I go finer and tastes much better even with a (much) longer drawdown. I guess my real question is: why would my unpretentious and cheap Capresso Infinity be able to produce better V60 results than the DF64 (even with the standard burrs) in terms of uniformity and the ability to go a bit coarser without grinding too unevenly? I guess I'll just have to wait out the first couple of kilos of grains to see if improves its performance at this range eventually. If not, I'll see if my espresso comes out uniform enough and if it isn't either, I'll have to recalibrate, I guess

Jonk
Posts: 2115
Joined: 4 years ago

#1499: Post by Jonk »

salseiro wrote:why would my unpretentious and cheap Capresso Infinity be able to [...] go a bit coarser without grinding too unevenly?
If you adjust a truly flat burr too coarse, the grinds will be able to escape as oblong flakes. A conical burr will split the particles into more spherical shapes at a similar burr gap.


I write 'truly' above because some flat burrs have a jagged rim with deep grooves that allow coarser particles to escape than the stock as well as other traditional espresso burrs at the same setting.

That is at least part of the reason why the burrs on the right are better suited for V60 and the like.

I haven't used the Capresso so I can't comment on whether your experience is to be expected or not. But rather than wasting several kgs, better open it up and do a marker test if you're not satisfied with the flavor - it's not a big project. To keep the alignment, just mark the position of the upper burr carrier so you put it back in the same orientation. Another thing would be to remove/modify the declumper, or try slow feeding the beans as discussed in page 150 of this thread.

Giampiero
Posts: 837
Joined: 8 years ago

#1500: Post by Giampiero »

Never ever try this if you are not sure what are you doing, moreover my grinder ( DF64) motor is at 230 volt 50hz and was a grinder unit released on October 2020.
Brief story, many months ago i installed a simple toggle switch on the right side grinder case, instead of the original button, so i removed even the electronic board, i was not interested in the timer functionality.
Today i can say that the motor never ever showed the warming behavior as showed with the original configuration, i do regularly grinds 3 consecutive doses 17gr. each.
Previously i really not paid attention to this fact, but in the last few weeks i realized that, so i did "monitor" the grinder case after every grinds session, basically remain at room temp at least by touch.
A simple coincidence, illusion, or there could be some reason linked to the board circuit design?
Honestly is more a curiosity than a real interest, i would not back to the original configuration since i lost the electronic board :lol: