G-IOTA / DF64 espresso grinder - Page 149

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
shadACII
Posts: 12
Joined: 1 year ago

#1481: Post by shadACII »

y33brzk wrote: 3. How difficult is the alignment process on the DF64?

4. Are DF64s bad aligned in general?

5. Which kind of burrs would you recommend for medium to dark roasts with the potential of filter coffee later on?
3. Not very much, it just takes a bit oft time

4. No, mine was okay (60 % with Marker test) after figuring out the best oft the 3 positions with the upper Burr carrier.

5. Difficult question. My Lab Sweets (refurbished) cannot grind fine enough for anything other than Turbo Shots, the multipurpose I had before weren't that great with darker Roasts, especially bad with (oat)-milk drinks. If you lean more on the espresso side and you are okay with "good" filter coffee (so not seeking for the absolute best), I would go with the stock burrs.

jacobtc
Posts: 2
Joined: 1 year ago

#1482: Post by jacobtc »

Just received my 2014 Gaggia Classic and DF64 V4 today.
Have been doing pour overs and want to delve into new territory.

First thing I did was to remove the blue vinyl from the DF64 and installed a matt black vinyl.




I have now been trying to align the burrs for a while, and can't get the top set to make sense, how would I go about adjusting this?
I tried shimming to increase the height where the burrs weren't touching, but I cant seem to figure out how to tackle a pattern like this. It seems like it is split in two.





On another note, I designed and 3D printed spacers for the bottom two screws, this gives the needed 18mm, and sits snuggly around the screw tower and the screw beside it.





Is this still of interest? I could upload it to Printables if people want it.

LObin
Posts: 1792
Joined: 7 years ago

#1483: Post by LObin replying to jacobtc »

DF64 has many different burr and burr carrier possible orientations. The first time around it's worth trying them out and figure out which combination gives you the best marker rub. You can then use a sharpie to mark the carriers.

I had really weird marker results at first until I realized that the slightest pressure on the adjustment collar or top burr carrier messed up the test. Make sure you don't touch anything other than the central shaft when spinning the burr.
LMWDP #592

GDM528
Posts: 837
Joined: 2 years ago

#1484: Post by GDM528 »

Does rotating the orientation of the upper burr carrier presume the lower burr is 'perfect'?

If the lower burr isn't perpendicular to the axis of the drive shaft, I can't picture any orientation of the upper burr that can correct for the lower burr wobbling. It's blurry, but the photo in post #1484 looks like only a small segment of the lower burr is touching the upper burr - shouldn't that get fixed first, before tackling the upper burr?

helderbarreto
Posts: 11
Joined: 2 years ago

#1485: Post by helderbarreto »

Wow, I'm very interested in these 3d spacers. Please upload tem for us :D

If possible, can you share how to install them with pictures?

Thank you in advance

canatto
Posts: 114
Joined: 8 years ago

#1486: Post by canatto »

jacobtc wrote: ...but I cant seem to figure out how to tackle a pattern like this...
Perhaps that burr rubbing pattern is a non-problem to begin with?

In the real world there is no such thing as perfect parallelism, burrs are not perfectly parallel to each other no matter how close you can get in alignment. There is always tolerance in play, not only of the assembly, bearing, and supporting system, but also the dimensional tolerance of the burrs themselves. When burrs are brought close together and start to come into contact, we can expect one part along the perimeter makes contact first. While In your case you had two opposing parts that got that first contact. I'd say you are already close to perfect alignment as can be.

If you want 100% erasing pattern, it probably would take turning down the grind size collar a bit more, and that's it. The system and the components are not perfectly rigid objects, they will "give" under pressure and take in the tolerances.

The grind size collar has 1.25mm thread pitch, A one full turn of the collar will move the burrs adjoining or apart by 1.25mm. One division in the dial scale would be equivalent to about 0.01mm. If you can get close to 100% erasing by taking in the grind size by no more than two divisions (0.02mm), that would be proof of perfect alignment, at least to me.

Skittle1605
Posts: 6
Joined: 1 year ago

#1487: Post by Skittle1605 »

What in your opinion is a "normal" amount of fines in the cup? I'm struggling a little bit with my DF64 in regards of fines and basically no matter what I do I get too much fines in the cup for my taste. The grinder is mostly stock but I have changed the declumper to a more flowing model, aligned the burrs and reseated the springs correctly. I also am aware of the effects on the zero point and grind settings below are accounting that.

I've been using DF64 for a while now and have a solid workflow worked out. It goes as follows:
- Current grind setting is around 13-14
- 18g beans in and I use RDT to help with static
- Let grinder do it's thing and give a few pumps with the bellows
- Put the coffee in portafilter (IMS 16-20g basket)
- WDT, tamp with Normcore calibrated tamper and drop in a puck screen on top
- Attach portafilter to my Ascaso (the model is an older Steel Uno PID Professional with a small boiler instead of thermoblock. The portafilter seal is fresh)
- Make some coffee, drink it up and admire the plentiful fines

The amount is not "massive" but enough to make me not take the last sip. Only thing I can really think of is that I use the bellows too aggressively, though I just give them a few pumps and use just a little force. I do however notice that when using the bellows I do get the finest of grounds always on top so some regrinding is definitely happening.

The pucks are also quite muddy like 80% time. Coffee itself is fine. I am struggling a bit with lighter roasts, but I think that's not that uncommon since they are more challenging to get just right.

Jonk
Posts: 2175
Joined: 4 years ago

#1488: Post by Jonk »

Skittle1605 wrote:What in your opinion is a "normal" amount of fines in the cup?


Something like this should be considered normal enough in my opinion, even though I'd seldom get that much in the cup it happens. If it bothers you, put a wet paper filter in the basket before adding the grinds. That will also help some with extracting lighter roasts - although it's more helpful to upgrade the burrs in my experience.. but you might also have success with mods like Hacking the DF64 exit chute and Bean flow restrictor for DF64

Skittle1605
Posts: 6
Joined: 1 year ago

#1489: Post by Skittle1605 »

Jonk wrote: Something like this should be considered normal enough in my opinion, even though I'd seldom get that much in the cup it happens. If it bothers you, put a wet paper filter in the basket before adding the grinds. That will also help some with extracting lighter roasts - although it's more helpful to upgrade the burrs in my experience.. but you might also have success with mods like Hacking the DF64 exit chute and Bean flow restrictor for DF64
I'd say I get somewhat more than that, but the difference is not huge. Noticeable but nothing noteworthy in my opinion. Guess I just need to adjust my expectations a bit. Although improvements could still be made.

Since my SO also uses the machine I probably won't be making any more major changes to the workflow itself. Those mods seem interesting, maybe I'll take a look at those. The burrs are rather expensive upgrade and I don't think I'll be going for those any time soon, since overall I'm happy with the coffee I get.

I read this thread a bit and found out that some users have been changing the way the use the bellows. I usually give a few light pumps with machine running but some have found out that this is usually the way most fines end up in the cup. I will need to test this a bit. The retention is not that significant so I could even try if I can get away with not using the bellows at all. I could just pump out the fines afterwards and not put the in the portafilter. I might lose a 0.1-0.3g of coffee this way, but not getting that much fines would be an improvement for sure.

GDM528
Posts: 837
Joined: 2 years ago

#1490: Post by GDM528 »

A filter paper disk in the bottom of the basket should keep the fines out of your cup, and those disks are becoming more common with online retailers. Barring that, I've found that metering the flow of beans into the grinder can strongly affect the quantity of fines produced - to the point where I've had to significantly dial down the grind setting to compensate. You can test with your particular roast by trickling in the beans by hand. The one downside I've found to reduced fines is fussier shot dynamics: harder to dial in and maintain. Despite that, I don't think I'll ever go back to dumping in the entire dose at once and overloading the burrs.

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