G-IOTA / DF64 espresso grinder - Page 114

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.

#1131: Post by Jonk »

LObin wrote:If I only had my Niche, I'd be happy with most of my pour overs but now I guess I know what I was missing.
This is kind of how I feel with the Niche vs 64mm SSP brew for espresso as well. Those burrs have enabled me to make awesome super light roast espresso given the right kind of bean. Juicy, sweet and basically with the flavor it says on the bag. Some of those same light roasts have been okay on the Niche while some have been terrible.. then somewhere in light-medium territory it's been a wash - but as soon as it's a clear medium or darker roast it's the Niche's turn to outshine those unimodal burrs. In my experience, of course. Perhaps there's a way to brew medium to dark unimodal grounds to taste good?

For pour over, I'd pick the SSP brew burrs regardless of roast.. but I'm not always happy with the way the coffee is presented. Sometimes it's too clean and boring. I'm happy it's not my only grinder*

*a Mazzer Mini E and not a DF64. Given that the grinders have so similar specs I don't expect much of a difference though, especially with clump crusher / anti-static screen removed. Just to comment on burrs vs. grinder I think for example RPM and bigger differences in build can have an impact, like Vario vs. Forté.

Oh, two things I use my Niche (and wouldn't want/be able to use a flat burr/hand grinder) for: sudo-staccato espresso and specialty turkish. It's great to have more than one option.


#1132: Post by heytchap »

mikelipino wrote:On workflow between the P64 and the DF64, what are the differences? Is there anything that can be addressed by modding? The aesthetics are an obvious P64 win, but with the same burrs are the capabilities the same? I see it also has variable RPM, but I assume it's sent for a particular grind and then doesn't affect workflow?

On a side note, looking at some later posts on the P64 thread, it's exciting to see that a "cast" / Lab Sweet-style burr is being developed by Option O. If that burr fits on the DF64, I'd be ecstatic.
Given that they use the same burrs, they will fit.

The P64 is a far superior grinder compared with the DF64 though, both grind speed and consistency are leagues above the DF64. Don't get me wrong, the DF64 is no slouch -and I have both grinders, so I feel qualified to comment- but the P64 is better in basically every way, including cup produced.


#1133: Post by mikelipino »

I don't doubt the P64 produces a better cup, but do you know why? Is it slop in the bearings? The variable speed motor? The way the burrs are mounted or stabilized? I've seen some P64 disassembly videos and couldn't place how the grind would be different using the same burrs. Just curious I guess


#1134: Post by BKH »

Can anyone point me to some blind taste test comparisons?


#1135: Post by Giampiero »

I can't judge difference in cup between a P64 and a DF64 because i have not a P64, but for sure i can say that the DF64 still a newbie in the market and reliability is not yet confirmed.
Mostly of DF64 users has few months experience on it, the older one was on the desk since February 2021.
For me has been like a rollercoaster trip, up and down, but whom reads my posts known i really tortured my unit, so it's nothing to compare with a "normal" user.
Frankly, i have to admit that the building design has "some" weak points, i hope the manufacturer will consider to improve it before to release a bigger burr version, and especially, trying to "smooth" some defect to not offend any sellers, is not a productive behavior, i prefer to criticize even minimal particulars but the grinder should at least work for what it's built for......and lasting too.
The good impression is that simply with a Mazzer33M burr set, i did saw a terrific difference using medium/dark, or dark roasted beans only for espresso, so with a simple machining of the lower burr carrier is possible to install it, instead to go with SSP.
I was tempted to buy a more recent version of the DF64, to verify if all the trouble i went through with my demo unit were just a "unlucky unit" or else.
Of course for the selling price i don't pretend to reach a superb performance, but i often got very "confusing" result and lately i had the collar dial ring, as well the upper burr carrier seized.
So for me, after 9 months of use, the adventure has finished i will keep use the DF64, daily but no more any "Frankenstein" experiment.
Hoping my "feed back" will only be considered for what really means, i simply tried to see if i could get some gold from a piece of wood, but i mostly enjoyed the trip and learned a lot.
It's time to concentrate to other "project"....X'Mas on the way :lol:


#1136: Post by Feca »

BKH wrote:Can anyone point me to some blind taste test comparisons?
I'd be interested too. I've read all gazillion pages of the product threads (for both) and I can't remember any done systematically (I may be wrong!), most experiences seem to be of the kind '... so obvious it doesn't need blind test' or 'I didn't blind taste, BUT...'.


#1137: Post by cmin »

heytchap wrote:Given that they use the same burrs, they will fit.

The P64 is a far superior grinder compared with the DF64 though, both grind speed and consistency are leagues above the DF64. Don't get me wrong, the DF64 is no slouch -and I have both grinders, so I feel qualified to comment- but the P64 is better in basically every way, including cup produced.
Even the Vario, both of mine (both aligned and steel in one and ceramic in other and had for like 7-10 years) are more consistent than the Df64. Let lone Monolith lol. Even today DF64 1st shot pulled as if way too tight and had blank spots and went towards 50 sec mark, next one was like 30 sec, next was 38 sec (about what I had dialed for around 40 sec mark), last was 47 seconds. Same dose and grind setting and it's aligned about as perfect as a DF64 can be. For me the Vario and Monolith (and other grinders had) are way more consistent. Seen others same the same on the DF group online. This is with the stock burr not SSPs.

I don't know what I may do with it, I could slap in SSPs for pour over duty only, but thr steel burr Varios aligned are killer for that even side by side SSPs and so much easier to use, no rention w/ flap flipped, no bellow, no mess etc.

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#1138: Post by Brewzologist »

Chris; sorry to hear about your inconsistencies with DF64 shots. FWIW I've had no such experience using my aligned DF64+MP daily for a few months for both espresso and pour-over. Whatever folks may otherwise think of the DE1, it is pretty merciless in showing inconsistencies and providing the data to back it up. I find most of my own espresso failings are due to puck prep, and when I do it well things are very consistent.


#1139: Post by cmin » replying to Brewzologist »

Other weird thing is weather, weather can affect I've always had to slightly adjust grind even on Monolith, but thr DF64 seems to go completely bi-polar like with our current weather in South FL going from say high 50s to low 60s in morning to about 80 durring day. Never seen a grinder affected so drastically like that in 10 years doing this lol

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#1140: Post by Brewzologist »

Wow. Crazy! Yes, to be transparent I occasionally make slight adjustments of about 1/2 a mark on the DF64 from day-to-day for the same coffee/shot which might cause at most a 1 second difference in shot length. But nothing like what you are describing. And FWIW, this type of tweaking is also what I've experienced with the Niche and other grinders too, which I attribute to coffee age, puck prep, etc.