Frustrating issue with 2nd double shot, grinder? - Page 5

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Jeff

#41: Post by Jeff »

Does your scale have a "Tare" feature? I use mine that way and it makes things a lot easier. On some scales that don't have an explicit tare function, you can do the same by zero-ing the scale with the cup or basket on it. That way you can read out the weight of the beans or the shot without having to do the subtraction yourself.

If you had 17.6 g in the basket, a 1:2 ratio would be ~35 g in the cup.

At 27 g out, you're at around a 1:1.5 ratio (26.9/17.6) which is sometimes where a dark roast tastes good, without getting into burnt, smokey, or ashy flavors. At 1:1.5 and what I call a medium roast (some roasters' medium is my dark), you might be underextracting a bit.

You can simplify your work and, more importantly, likely get to enjoy your espresso more if you skip the volume measurement and just take note of the weight (in grams, the same units as the weight of the beans).

jiminycrickett

#42: Post by jiminycrickett »

I don't mind doing the subtraction, etc. myself. Thing is, I was told by a technician/manager at Whole Latte Love, You should be getting 1.5- 2 ounces in about 25-30 seconds. .91- .95 oz. is substantially under that. For all I know maybe I'm shutting it off when it appears to start getting too light. That's kind of subjective too--as what I consider starting to blonde, others might not think so. This is just all too much math to me, and that was never my forte.

PIXIllate

#43: Post by PIXIllate » replying to jiminycrickett »


Get a scale. Just do it. Everyone needs to do this, especially to start with and ESPECIALLY with a Gaggia Classic. Measure the dry dose to a tenth of a gram and measure the weight of the shot out. Until you do this you are wandering around in the dark.

Get rid of the Gaggia ASAP. I had one for a few months and life was miserable. They are simply not capable of producing stable temperature or appropriate pressure. The newest version (the one I had) is stuck at 13 bar extraction. This is not workable for great coffee.

Mornings are hard enough without that grief.

jiminycrickett

#44: Post by jiminycrickett »

I've stated multiple times already that I have a scale & use it all the time weighing out my beans, and do all the mathematical equations done as listed above. It's okay. Just explaining this. Thanks everyone for all your help, much appreciated.

Jeff

#45: Post by Jeff »

jiminycrickett wrote:I was told by a technician/manager at Whole Latte Love, You should be getting 1.5- 2 ounces in about 25-30 seconds. .91- .95 oz. is substantially under that.
I think that's the whole ounces/ounces problem. He's probably talking in fluid ounces, your scale is measuring in grams.
jiminycrickett wrote:For all I know maybe I'm shutting it off when it appears to start getting too light. That's kind of subjective too--as what I consider starting to blonde, others might not think so.
There's a recent thread on recognizing when a shot is "done" at Newbie: Flow color vs weight to stop extraction
jiminycrickett wrote:This is just all too much math to me
Me too, especially early in the morning! I think that if you use the tare/zero feature of your scale, you can skip the pre-shot note taking and the subtraction. I'm guessing you're coming up with 0.91 oz from grams rather than with a chemistry-set graduated cylinder or something. You can skip that conversion too.

If 17.5 g is your dose, just multiply by two, once, and get 35 g. That's about all the math I can muster when it's dark and cold and I haven't had coffee yet. Best thing is if you don't change your dose, you can do it when you're sharp and just put on a sticky note or in your espresso log book.

jiminycrickett

#46: Post by jiminycrickett »

I think that's the whole ounces/ounces problem. He's probably talking in fluid ounces, your scale is measuring in grams. But I converted the grams to ounces for them
Okay, I think I've burned everyone's brains out to the max. I so appreciate your awesome help & time you gave me Jeff! Gonna look at that "bonding guide."

jiminycrickett

#47: Post by jiminycrickett »

Jeff,
I found this very interesting on blonding.
" if the shot is not clear by the time you get to whatever benchmark you are looking for, it will always taste better if you wait for it clear. If the shot is flowing clear before you hit your benchmark, it will usually be a denser, more espresso-like version of what you would get at your benchmark. Heather Perry of Klatch roasting, two times US barista champ, taught me this long ago, maybe fifteen years or so, when most people, including me, were stopping shots a lot darker. I've never since that time had a coffee that was better tasting when it wasn't flowing clear, or that improved when pulling it longer. It's just about the most invariable rule I know."

I've always shut the machine off as it went from darker to medium to light tan.

Jeff

#48: Post by Jeff »

You're probably close to "on" with a medium-dark or dark roast.

I think that quote was was another_jim, who later qualified it as not including a specific, well-known medium-dark blend, "To put it mildly, I'm not a fan of Vivace Dolce. If that's what you're going for; my thoughts don't apply." Many "comfort" espresso blends or darker roasts often don't do well with long pulls. The nugget about watching for lightening where the stream hits the cup, making a comparatively tan/white spot, is another of his, as I recall.