Frustrating issue with 2nd double shot, grinder? - Page 2

September 11th, 2020, 3:30 pm

Just to confirm, you're pulling two shots, back to back, then doing your steaming, yes? Yes, I always steam the milk after pulling my two doubles. I pull the 2nd double about 5 minutes after the 1st double. I don't know if maybe I should press the steam button down after the 1st double ? That has been a suggestion. As far as "temp surfing", I don't know if I completely understand that because the light on my Gaggia goes on within 30 seconds after turning the machine on for the first time. Then the light goes off within about 30 seconds, then it went on for about 2 minutes, then off for like 10 seconds, back on. I think after re-reading the one post about surfing, I'm understanding a little more, "How long do you let it warm up? The light will go off as soon as the boiler gets up to temp/pressure. When it goes off the first time, it starts to dissipate all the heat into the rest of the machine. After multiple cycles, the fluctuation becomes more and more consistent. This in/off temperature cycle is the "wave" you need to surf." So I am trying to make sure I give at least 5 minutes in between doubles. Then as soon as the light goes off, I have the portafilter in the grouphead & ready to hit the on switch to get the espresso flowing.
I don't mind spending more on an espresso machine, but would I look for one with a dual boiler, bigger boiler? thanks

#12: Post by **jevenator** » September 11th, 2020, 3:46 pm

Since your first shot is good as you claim lets not touch that and keep it the same.

For your second shot. Give it those 5 minutes or so for good measure. You kind of want to time this part. The heater cycles on and off, when it cycles on it will heat heat heat until a certain temperature and the shut off. As soon as it shuts off, insert the PF & flip the steam switch. It will force it to turn back on and heat even more. Count 6 seconds, flip the steam off and then engage the pump. See if that does anything to the taste of the shot.

You can try this without a PF to practice. You want to time it in a way where it heats it up but not too high that when you engage the pump you'll get a flash of steam. We want to avoid that. That would be the temp surfing technique I used when I owned a '98 Classic for a few days and got decent results.

I don't know where to find a better quality picture but this is how the machine cycles. You have to be pulling shots at the peak and a little more like I said.

September 11th, 2020, 4:08 pm

Thank you so much, will try that tomorrow, as I just finished making my 2 doubles now & saw this. I did (and do) time the 5 minutes between shots. This time I waited exactly til the light went out (stays on at least a couple minutes sometimes, don't know if that is normal). As soon as it went out, I put the portafilter in as fast as lightning & turned machine on. Weird cuz the coffee started flowing at 4 seconds after turning on. This blend of beans seems to blond quicker (22-23 seconds) than other blends. It is a Barrington Gold (used to love it, jury is out now) Anyway, I say that to say I don't think the temp. surfing (without pushing the steam down) really seemed to slow my 2nd shot down. Tomorrow I will try what you said with the steam switch. It seems I'm in a quandary because I don't have as many of these issues with darker roasts (Vienna, example)--yet sometimes those are too bitter for my liking & don't think because of a tendency to be more oily because of longer roasting, is good for my grinder.

#14: Post by **Jeff** » September 11th, 2020, 4:33 pm

It's not that you want to wait "5 minutes" as the period will vary depending on your machine, line voltage, room temperature, and more. You should pull at "x seconds" after the light tell you where you are in the cycle.

September 11th, 2020, 4:47 pm

I heard/read it takes the Gaggia at least 5 minutes to heat the boiler back up after pulling a shot, but the last shot I pulled (before I read your post about hitting the steam switch down before pulling the shot) the light went off & that's when I hit the coffee button. Still a little fast.

September 12th, 2020, 10:55 am

My suggestion is to skip your first shot. Pull 30g of water through the portafilter with no coffee. Then proceed to grind and tamp and prep your real first shot. You should be able to repeat the timing of this process to get similar results for 2, 3, 4, etc. Shots in a row, provided you allow sufficient recovery time between shots.

I dont think it's your 2nd shot that is the problem. I think it's your first shot. Optimize your grind for the 2nd one and hopefully it will work for a 3rd, 4th ...

September 12th, 2020, 3:15 pm

I am going to do this, should I also let 30g of water through before I do the 2nd double also? Thanx

#18: Post by **Jeff** » September 12th, 2020, 3:27 pm

By pulling a "fake" shot, it can help determine if it's a first-shot problem. The key is making your timing, relative to the boiler and group temperatures repeatable.

September 12th, 2020, 3:29 pm

So I don't need to do the "fake shot" for the 2nd double, just prior to the 1st double? Thx

#20: Post by **Jeff** » September 12th, 2020, 3:35 pm

The fake shot would help to eliminate any warm-up issues. You really need to run some controlled tests. Make a hypothesis, find one thing to change, see if that improved things or not. Nobody here knows if you're controlling temperature yet, or, if you are, if shot #3 behaves like shot #1. One hypothesis is that shot #1 is the outlier, not #2