Flat burr cost? - Page 2

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
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slipchuck

Postby slipchuck » Feb 13, 2018, 5:00 pm

As far as price goes, the cheapest versions could be just "regular" steel and the better ones would likely be hardened tool steel.
Also, economies of scale dictates the more of the certain product is made, the less expensive they become.

Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

RyanJE

Postby RyanJE » Feb 13, 2018, 5:24 pm

Lets not forget good old "markup" and supply and demand.

Some burrs are probably crazy mark up some not. Look at how much EK burrs cost...
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Feb 15, 2018, 9:52 pm

I have no experience with coated anything other than coated and uncoated carbide. No one coats tool steels for lathes or mills. I love tool steels though, carbide is too hard and difficult to shape; so when doing a project that requires a custom profile for the cutting tool, its always easier to use HS tool steel.
That's also what the bean grinder appears to use... as posted earlier, no one makes burrs out of titanium, its too soft a material and is very 'sticky' so doesn't like to be cut and is difficult to get real sharp. But they do coat carbide bits with Titanium nitride coatings, that's the pretty gold colors. I'm pretty sure the burrs are made from tool steels and then hardened. When my new zip burrs come in, I'll have a set of old burrs I can experiment with, but pretty sure they are D2 or a near equivalent. It would be interesting if someone made a set of burrs from carbide.... they would probably last decades :) but carbide is too expensive in those kind of sizes.

I found a very old thread from someone who bought a set of Robur conical burrs and was making his own grinder... from 2011. HB has since revised that thread and put my inquiry on that thread, and I hope the OP chimes in, although its been 7 years since the thread was started. The reason I started this post about the burrs was because I was sort of knocking around some ideas, pricing out burr sets as I was sort of in the planning stages of doing the same thing and building an experimental grinder for myself, thus the questions on burr set costs. Have worked out some of the broad strokes, but now have to find a brushless DC motor with controller. Anyone with a dead power wheelchair they'd like to donate or sell to me parts from, at low cost :) ?

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slipchuck

Postby slipchuck » replying to walt_in_hawaii » Feb 15, 2018, 10:04 pm

I always get a kick over people who pay extra for titanium drills... a lot of good having the body of the drill coated as it doesn't cut anything :)

Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

*sigh*

Postby *sigh* » Feb 15, 2018, 10:13 pm

walt_in_hawaii wrote:The reason I started this post about the burrs was because I was sort of knocking around some ideas, pricing out burr sets as I was sort of in the planning stages of doing the same thing and building an experimental grinder for myself, thus the questions on burr set costs. Have worked out some of the broad strokes, but now have to find a brushless DC motor with controller. Anyone with a dead power wheelchair they'd like to donate or sell to me parts from, at low cost :) ?

Makes sense. The right burrs are just totally going to depend on what your main objective is (espresso vs drip), unimodal vs not, volume, grind speed, etc. Since you'll be building something from scratch you'll have a lot more flexibility, but as what mentioned earlier, outer diameter is only one measure, so some are going to have more or less area depending on how narrow the center hole will be.

I would just find a pair of burrs with the cutting characteristics you're looking for and build around that, cost will vary based on the number of factors before plus typical supply/demand factors. SSP burrs might be a good place to start if you're looking for a high quality burr, but if you're just looking to experiment a more budget friendly option might be better suited. Just depends on what kind of results you're chasing in the cup.

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Feb 15, 2018, 10:26 pm

I'm looking for exceptional in-cup espresso... not interested in anything else at the moment. I have a Pharos and a Pavoni zip, but have been reading about the Robur and how that particular set of burrs may yield flavors not typically found by other grinders or accentuated beyond what I have found. But when pricing the Robur and Monolith and EG-1 it took me a long time to pick myself up off the ground after getting sticker-shocked. After checking for injuries, I thought it best not to delve further into commercial single dose grinder costs. I mean, how hard could it be? you hold one part still, and rotate the other part inside it and allow for slight up or down adjustment. In theory, simple. In execution, well, don't hurt yourself pricing them out, huh?

aloha,
walt

User avatar
slipchuck

Postby slipchuck » replying to walt_in_hawaii » Feb 15, 2018, 10:42 pm

I don't own the Monolith but I am going to bet that a person like me likely couldn't taste every thing it brings out, without a trained pallet :)


Randy
“There is nobody you can’t learn to like once you’ve heard their story.”

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Feb 15, 2018, 11:04 pm

Oh, you mean its supposed to taste good too?? I was just admiring the looks! :)

Bigpaul

Postby Bigpaul » Mar 23, 2018, 8:12 am

walt_in_hawaii wrote:I have no experience with coated anything other than coated and uncoated carbide. No one coats tool steels for lathes or mills. I love tool steels though, carbide is too hard and difficult to shape; so when doing a project that requires a custom profile for the cutting tool, its always easier to use HS tool steel.
That's also what the bean grinder appears to use... as posted earlier, no one makes burrs out of titanium, its too soft a material and is very 'sticky' so doesn't like to be cut and is difficult to get real sharp. But they do coat carbide bits with Titanium nitride coatings, that's the pretty gold colors. I'm pretty sure the burrs are made from tool steels and then hardened. When my new zip burrs come in, I'll have a set of old burrs I can experiment with, but pretty sure they are D2 or a near equivalent. It would be interesting if someone made a set of burrs from carbide.... they would probably last decades :) but carbide is too expensive in those kind of sizes.

I found a very old thread from someone who bought a set of Robur conical burrs and was making his own grinder... from 2011. HB has since revised that thread and put my inquiry on that thread, and I hope the OP chimes in, although its been 7 years since the thread was started. The reason I started this post about the burrs was because I was sort of knocking around some ideas, pricing out burr sets as I was sort of in the planning stages of doing the same thing and building an experimental grinder for myself, thus the questions on burr set costs. Have worked out some of the broad strokes, but now have to find a brushless DC motor with controller. Anyone with a dead power wheelchair they'd like to donate or sell to me parts from, at low cost :) ?


Hi Walt.
Interested to hear about building a custom grinder. Ive often thought about a 12v grinder to run off batteries via a solar setup! I dont know enough to create it myself but saw your post. Any progress so far??
Paul

CwD

Postby CwD » Mar 23, 2018, 9:09 am

walt_in_hawaii wrote:I mean, how hard could it be? you hold one part still, and rotate the other part inside it and allow for slight up or down adjustment. In theory, simple. In execution, well, don't hurt yourself pricing them out, huh?

aloha,
walt


You hold one part still perfectly and perfectly perpendicular to the drive shaft. Then have another burr spin perfectly parallel to it. The burrs themselves are also precision made parts. Both so each grinder of that type extracts the same and so the grind is uniform.

It doesn't cost much to slap some horrible burrs together and spin them. It costs a lot to do it with quality burrs and tight tolerances.

Also, as for tungsten carbide burrs, SSP does make some! Getting a set myself for the EG-1.