Fellow Ode brew grinder review - Page 43

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
jdrobison

#421: Post by jdrobison »

Agreed. I feel bad for people who were counting on an improvement over whatever they had. I'm a sucker for coffee Kickstarters and, while I would have enjoyed this grinder instead of my Vario (form factor, auto stop, PID motor) it's also ok if it's not an improvement. I know the risk of Kickstarter campaigns.

Keep in mind that I have tried two Odes now and both produce too many 1000+ um particles. They sent me the second one in hopes that it would be better. It was a slight improvement but not even close to producing good extractions.

I think they shouldn't be retailing the grinder yet - those of us who backed it were willing for it to be less than promised. But Fellow, themselves, say that pour over grinds should fall between 400 - 800 um and then build a grinder that produces more than half above that. Unless they stat that it's a full immersion device, I think people are buying it only to be disappointed.

coffea

#422: Post by coffea »

I did a side by side comparison of the Ode, Vario with steel burrs, and Virtuoso grinders using a Melitta pour over dripper. Some qualifying statements:
1. I used several different light roasted single origin coffees for testing: Coava - Nathalia Maria, Indonesia Cindaku.
2. I used water heated to 95 degrees Celsius.
3. I used No. 4 Connaisseur Coffee Filters.
4. I used a ratio of 18 grams/300 ml.
5. I used the following grind settings:
Ode - 4
Vario - 10/W (calibrated to Baratza specs)
Virtuoso - 18

My observations:
The Vario using the largest grind setting consistently produced an over extracted brew that masked the fruity flavor profiles of the coffees. The Virtuoso generated many fines that stalled the brews so that draw times often exceeded five minutes and masked the fruit flavors. The Ode consistently produced pour overs with a 2:30 - 3:00 draw time and a 30 second bloom. The flavor profile using the Ode was more balanced between fruit forward and chocolate than noted with the other grinders.

In my opinion, the Ode is a worthwhile purchase. The price point when considering draw down times, not coffee grind size distribution, seems to be consistent with the SCA recommendations. I am not trying to defend the Ode, or in any way counter the observations of others. Rather, I am affirming my satisfaction with the Ode.

Jonk

#423: Post by Jonk »

coffea wrote: Vario - 10/W (calibrated to Baratza specs)
Curious, this should be a very coarse setting. Is this how you'd normally brew?

In addition to the tale of two grinders, I think what we're seeing is also different styles of brewing. I've never gone past 6 on my Vario (also steel burrs, calibrated to 2Q) and been happy with the results. I'd expect an underextracted brew unless I changed brew parameters somehow or used a dark roast.

STG

#424: Post by STG »

coffea wrote:I did a side by side comparison of the Ode, Vario with steel burrs, and Virtuoso grinders using a Melitta pour over dripper. Some qualifying statements:
1. I used several different light roasted single origin coffees for testing: Coava - Nathalia Maria, Indonesia Cindaku.
2. I used water heated to 95 degrees Celsius.
3. I used No. 4 Connaisseur Coffee Filters.
4. I used a ratio of 18 grams/300 ml.
5. I used the following grind settings:
Ode - 4
Vario - 10/W (calibrated to Baratza specs)
Virtuoso - 18

My observations:
The Vario using the largest grind setting consistently produced an over extracted brew that masked the fruity flavor profiles of the coffees. The Virtuoso generated many fines that stalled the brews so that draw times often exceeded five minutes and masked the fruit flavors. The Ode consistently produced pour overs with a 2:30 - 3:00 draw time and a 30 second bloom. The flavor profile using the Ode was more balanced between fruit forward and chocolate than noted with the other grinders.

In my opinion, the Ode is a worthwhile purchase. The price point when considering draw down times, not coffee grind size distribution, seems to be consistent with the SCA recommendations. I am not trying to defend the Ode, or in any way counter the observations of others. Rather, I am affirming my satisfaction with the Ode.
I also have a Vario with brew burrs. I agree with your comments though I have a few if my own for anyone who is interested.

I think the stock Ode can be better than the Vario, but you need to qualify that statement. Large batches requiring a coarse enough grind will be superior on the stock Ode. I think it produces less fines. Smaller batches requiring finer grinds will most likely be better on the Vario due to the simple fact that the burrs will not grind find enough on the Ode to achieve proper extraction.

I would say to anyone who is moderately satisfied with their Vario with brew burrs that unless you plan on getting SSP burrs with your Ode, it probably is more of a lateral move, not an upgrade.

I am still testing the SSP burrs in the Ode but so far I've made some amazing brews in the v60.

jdrobison

#425: Post by jdrobison »

coffea wrote:I did a side by side comparison of the Ode, Vario with steel burrs, and Virtuoso grinders using a Melitta pour over dripper. Some qualifying statements:
1. I used several different light roasted single origin coffees for testing: Coava - Nathalia Maria, Indonesia Cindaku.
2. I used water heated to 95 degrees Celsius.
3. I used No. 4 Connaisseur Coffee Filters.
4. I used a ratio of 18 grams/300 ml.
5. I used the following grind settings:
Ode - 4
Vario - 10/W (calibrated to Baratza specs)
Virtuoso - 18

My observations:
The Vario using the largest grind setting consistently produced an over extracted brew that masked the fruity flavor profiles of the coffees. The Virtuoso generated many fines that stalled the brews so that draw times often exceeded five minutes and masked the fruit flavors. The Ode consistently produced pour overs with a 2:30 - 3:00 draw time and a 30 second bloom. The flavor profile using the Ode was more balanced between fruit forward and chocolate than noted with the other grinders.

In my opinion, the Ode is a worthwhile purchase. The price point when considering draw down times, not coffee grind size distribution, seems to be consistent with the SCA recommendations. I am not trying to defend the Ode, or in any way counter the observations of others. Rather, I am affirming my satisfaction with the Ode.
This is super helpful - thanks for doing this! And it brings up a variable that we haven't been discussing either here or on the Ode Kickstarter site. We aren't all using the same filter paper. Like Jonk, I grind around the 6 setting on my Vario to achieve +/-3:30 drawdowns and well-balanced cups but I'm using the Kalita filters and Wave, which is also what I'm using when testing the Ode. Could they be that much faster than the Connaisseur? I'm grinding with the Ode at it's finest setting and can't produce the drawdown time that you're producing. Could it be that we're all getting similar grind sizes but achieving different results due simply to different paper?

coffea

#426: Post by coffea »

Exactly!

elbee

#427: Post by elbee »

I know this is about the Ode, but I would like to "defend" the Virtuoso. I don't have the Vario or Ode. With my V60 and a Hario paper filter I use a grind setting of #15 (even finer than the #18 described above) using 340gm of water to 20gms of coffee. I have never had anything approaching a 5-minute drip time. Pour-over device/filter type, bean type and pouring technique could be factors, I suppose. I get similar results using my Timemore G1 manual grinder at a comparable setting.

Addyct

#428: Post by Addyct »

So, perhaps I missed this somewhere in the last 43 pages, but considering that the Ode+SSP seems to be a very good grinder, what would the competition for that setup be at ~$500?

powerandylin

#429: Post by powerandylin »

Asked Fellow about SSP burrs for Ode yesterday, and here's their reply:

"We are currently figuring out a new burr system for the new versions of the ODE, as well as replacements for current ODE's. Existing SSP burrs are not compatible for current ODE's yet (literally 1mm to big). We should be coming out with an update very soon about modified SSP burrs to work with ODE very soon!"

Sounds like good news to me :D

User avatar
JacquesCousteaudian

#430: Post by JacquesCousteaudian »

I wonder if that means (a) that they're partnering with SSP to develop 63mm burrs that fit into the current Ode, or (b) that they will make sure that new Odes produced will be capable of swapping for SSP's existing 64mm burrs. Do you understand it as either of those?