Eureka Zero - "dark chocolate" flavor for all grind settings

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klickster68
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#1: Post by klickster68 »

Hi,

New to home-barista.com and new to Eureka grinders. I just bought a Eureka Mignon Zero and all my coffees (pourover of various kinds) always tastes like dark chocolate as the primary flavor component.

I have a comandante c40 mk3 and don't notice this with the same beans. I'm testing with Trader Joes breakfast blend - I don't want to waste good coffee dialing in until I can figure this out.

The Zero supposedly comes with MP burrs that work for espresso as well as filter coffee.

I've tried 1,2 and 3 full rotations from zero (yes I get how the dial works) with various devices and always get same undertones with the coffee. I am looking for "milk chocolate" but getting "dark chocolate". The beans are probably darker than I'd prefer but not dark or oily at all. The can is labeled "Medium Roast". Beans are relatively fresh as there is some CO2 bubbles when do my initial pours.

The coffee doesn't taste bitter from over extraction but there's no sweetness whatsoever either - every coffee brewed has this dark chocolate component to it.

My initial thought is that the burrs are more espresso focused and producing some extra fines - but I don't see evidence of this in the brew beds - they are very clean and devoid of mud and the sides of the filter are devoid of fines for the most part. Quite happy with the lack of fines to be honest!

I can get good Aeropress out of it (2 full turns from zero, 14g/100g, 1m steep, then press and dilute with 130g water) but didn't like the V60 at same grind size (12g/200g finished just after 3:30 using hoffmans 5-pour method) - it feels like I need to go coarser but it doesn't seem to help - I've been brewing a Clever dripper at 3 rotations (water first, coffee after) and not loving it - 18:1, 1 minute steep, fast draw down - should be giving me weak/sour cups but nope!

Any thoughts?

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Jeff
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#2: Post by Jeff »

First, welcome to H-B.

"Any thoughts?"

Unfortunately, yes. It's a 55 mm hopper-fed grinder in the budget category. While I think Eureka is one of the better of the traditional manufacturers, they are still pretty traditional, even through their upper-tier models. It's not going to compete with a C40 on filter. It's likely to be very traditional in its presentation of espresso.

klickster68 (original poster)
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#3: Post by klickster68 (original poster) »

Thanks for the reply - So the grinder is designed to produce these sorts of flavors beyond the roast profile of the beans? Could you explain? Does this mean the burrs are creating more fines? It doesn't seem so from the brew beds. I did several months of research before buying this and was sure flat burrs were the way to go...but maybe not :( Maybe time to go back down the rabbit hole...

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Jeff
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#4: Post by Jeff »

Before you question yourself completely, I think Eureka grinders are good grinders for those that enjoy traditional espresso (thick, "chocolate and nuts" shots, perhaps with some accents of cherry or other dark berry or fruit) and prefer a hopper-fed grinder over single dosing. Their high-end grinders have well-respected burrs in that style and their budget models are considered a good choice for those starting out in espresso. Despite what marketing from manufacturers and retailers claim, there aren't any grinders that do as good of a job on filter as they do on espresso (or vice versa, depending on the focus). While you can get close in roughly the over US$1,500 range, but if you're spending that much, you're probably better off with an espresso-focused grinder and then something like a Fellow Ode with SSP burrs for filter and let the espresso burr set excel there.

I don't think that it is so much that the grinder is intentionally making more fines or anything else really measurable. Burrs are still a lot of art and not much science. The long-established manufacturers have tried burr designs in the past and decided which they thought would sell well and not be considered a negative that diluted brand quality. Up until maybe 5-10 years ago, your burr choices were generally "normal" and "long life" and that was about it.There was sort of one profile for espresso burrs. Conical or flat, it didn't matter.

Conical burrs have gotten a lot better, especially in smaller sizes -- like your C40. There is a lot of parroting on the internet these days about "needing" a flat-burr grinder. There are some great conicals out there now, including some relatively affordable ones that do a very good job with espresso and a good job with filter.

Where flat-burr grinders seem to have an edge is with people that are willing to trade a bit (or a lot) of body and smoothness in espresso for "sweetness", "juiciness", "clarity" or "flavor separation". You also tend to get a much less forgiving burr set the more you move to "high clarity" and away from traditional espresso profiles. What a lot of chatter doesn't capture is that this isn't a general aspect of flat burr sets, but of a handful of designs from SSP, Option-O, and perhaps a few others.

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baldheadracing
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#5: Post by baldheadracing »

Just to clarify, there is a "Eureka Mignon Zero Brew" and a "Eureka Mignon Zero." The "Brew" model has brew-specific burrs that may not grind fine enough for espresso. The non-brew model has the burrs that I believe are also in the Mignon Specialita (espresso-focused grinder).
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

klickster68 (original poster)
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#6: Post by klickster68 (original poster) »

Agree with all your comments. I went with flat burrs looking for the things you described (sweetness, juiciness and clarity). I never found my C40 to be "muddy" and have had some really sweet (flavored) cups from it. I tried an Ode (no SSP burrs) and didn't like it at all (mostly a design/UX thing). The Eureka seems like a machine vs an appliance - it has great build quality and I like the simple design, but burrs are now a "thing" and not too many options for 55mm. I think I will probably try the brew burrs from the Brew Pro and see if that solves my problem. I won't be brewing espresso.

I discovered something interesting...part of the problem is the beans - they have some funky roast thing - I rebrewed in clever with C40 at a course grind and quick drawdown - sweeter but still had this underlying dark chocolate thing. I am going to try brewing at 180 deg. and see what happens. What baffles me the most is: Aeropress at 2 rotations above chirp = great tasting cup (diluted with 130g water). Any other method or larger grind size = nope. I always use water right off boil since Rev. James says it's OK. But I know Mr. Adler would disagree - so we'll see. Thanks for the detailed follow up it's most appreciated :)

klickster68 (original poster)
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#7: Post by klickster68 (original poster) »

Yes, I tried to buy the Zero Brew but wasn't stocked. I got the zero for <$450 and figured if I needed burrs I would spend $50 and get them. Seems like I will need to do that! Now if I can only order them here in the states.

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baldheadracing
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#8: Post by baldheadracing replying to klickster68 »

Although they don't have them in stock, here's a pic:
https://bellabarista.co.uk/products/eur ... 0c23&_ss=r

I think this is what you have:
https://bellabarista.co.uk/products/55m ... specialita

Just to be confusing, here is an Amazon.com source of the "Brew Pro" burrs, but I think that they didn't take pics of both burrsets. At least you will know what to look for on the back of the burrs:
https://www.amazon.com/Filter-Coffee-Eu ... DM7F/?th=1
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada
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JohanR
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#9: Post by JohanR »

Maybe there is a new Brew Pro burr coming out like the one on the picture from Bellabarista. But the ones I have look very similar to the espresso burrs as shown in the picture below (Brew Pro is left):

It is only the "run out" (hoping that is the correct term) that differs as shown more clearly in the next picture.

In any case the Brew Pro burrs cannot be used for espresso.
Johan
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klickster68 (original poster)
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#10: Post by klickster68 (original poster) »

Thanks to everyone for all the great info. I did find those Brew Pro burrs on Amazon and ordered them. Thanks for the comparison between the espresso and brew burrs - I can see the difference and it makes sense about not being able to grind for espresso since the gap is pretty obvious with the brew burrs fully touching. One person reviewed on Amazon had a Mignon Zero and said the brew burrs work great - so I'm hopeful. $40 is reasonable. Also I found "The Wired Gourmet" on YT - some great stuff on his channel specific to Eureka grinders.

I tried brewing at lower temp this morning (180 degrees) and was able to lessen the "dark chocolate" flavor. Still there but much less pronounced (I guess "over-extaction" was happening although other beans didn't do this for me at > 200F brewing, Comandante C40). I need to get some good beans for sure. Once I get some good beans I will try with both burr sets and report back.