Eureka Atom Specialty 75 - an opinion - Page 8

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
billgiannelli

#71: Post by billgiannelli »

For the Atom 75 what is the difference between the titanium and the "red speed" burrs? what advantages does each have?
thanks
Bill

aut0maticdan

#72: Post by aut0maticdan »

billgiannelli wrote:For the Atom 75 what is the difference between the titanium and the "red speed" burrs? what advantages does each have?
thanks
Bill
There is some confusion around the burr sets in the Atom 75 (at least on my part). Eureka manufactures the Mythos burrs, but they also sell another set of 75mm burrs which retail much cheaper than the Mythos version. Is there a difference? I do not know.

Strictly speaking, there should be little difference between Titanium and Red Speed other than the coating. Generally the coating is intended to help with longevity. I can't weigh in here, because I don't know that I've ever used coated burrs. I can say that SSP recommends red speed for espresso. People have reported effects of coating on consistency and static and a number of other things. I've never come across an exhaustive study.

Since you are in Howell (I'm moving to Shrewsbury soon, we'll be like neighbors), you may be interested in 1st-line's (Freehold, NJ) response when I asked about the burrs in the Atoms they are selling at a slight premium. I asked if the Titanium burrs they were offering in the Atom 75 were Mythos burrs and if not, what the difference is.
Eureka confirmed this grinder has the Mythos burrs with the Mythos labeling on the side of the burrs.
Getting the Mythos geometry is the priority for me. I don't know if red speed burrs are "Mythos." I would make sure to confirm with whomever you plan to buy which burr set you are getting Mythos vs Non-Mythos Eureka.

Edit / Pulled up an e-mail exchange I had with Hangsung Lee of SSP last year:
I normally recommend Red speed for espresso, Silver knight for brewing.
we also have TICN, TIN but these are very old one and weak, not enough for protection.
So, he is calling Titanium very old and weak. :P. I think for home use it becomes a question of how many decades you will get out of a set of burrs vs a cafe where it may be 2 years vs 8 years.

Edit Edit:

"Titanium" may be too vague. because Red Speed = Red Speed Titanium Aluminum Carbon Nitride (TiAICN)

Further, Red Speed may be an SSP thing, so that may mean they are burrs made by SSP or potentially burrs made by Eureka that went to SSP for coating. Or maybe it means that SSP makes Mythos burrs for Eureka. IDK what to make of it all.

sprolever

#73: Post by sprolever »

Eureka/Nuova Simonelli produce 1 burr set in carbon steel that comes standard in the Atom, Olympus and Mythos basic (15080002). Then they offer the same carbon steel burrs with 2 different surface coatings: Titanium that are normally referred as the mythos burrs (15030057) and Red Speed (MAC75ITA-R-SPEED CP). It's always the same burr set made from the same material with same geometry only difference is the surface coating.

There is also the patent pending "Diamond inside" (MAC75ITA-DI CP) that is some sort of thermal cryogenic treatment not a surface coating.

billgiannelli

#74: Post by billgiannelli »

thank you for the information!
would it be too simplistic to say the titanium coated is better than steel, red speed better than titanium, diamond better than red speed?
Also, I see on there web site they have new grinders coming out "Prometheus" and "Zeus" with the "latest technology". They seem to be flat burrs. Why would they not want conical burrs?
thanks
Bill

aut0maticdan

#75: Post by aut0maticdan »

Great info @sprolever

The best / longest lasting you can get right now would be the red speed. I don't think those cryo burrs exist and if my experience with vacuum tubes is relevant, they will be expensive. My bet would be that cryo process is meant to harden the burrs and further improve durability. They may get additional coatings on top of that process.

For a home user the cryo/diamonds could be a liability if they require break in. In may lengthen that process significantly.

sprolever

#76: Post by sprolever »

They do exist, they come standard on the Atom pro but with a different geometry. You can buy a set with mythos geometry right now from elektros and probably other vendors as well. They are actually cheaper than the coated ones, Titanium is the most expensive then red speed.

aut0maticdan

#77: Post by aut0maticdan »

Interesting. I've never seen the defaults referred to as "diamond inside" and the default burrs generally go by a different part number.

https://www.1st-line.com/technical-supp ... s-diagram/

towards the bottom:

MAC74 CP - ATOM FLAT BURR SET 75MM
MAC75ITA-R-SPEED CP - ATOM FLAT BURR SET 75MM RED SPEED
MACMYTHOSLOW CP - ATOM FLAT BURR SET 75MM TITANIO

I think you are right about the progression of standard > red speed > titanium based on pricing I've seen online, but even that is confusing because there are "titanium Eureka" burrs available for 1/3-1/2 the price of the "titanium Mythos" burrs. Are they knockoffs? Are they red speed?

All this has been fun but ultimately leads back to my original set of question of what is the difference? Is it just coating or is there something different about the burr design? Are the "titanium Mythos" ones more expensive simply because they say "Mythos" on the side? Are the non-mythos burrs b stock? What exactly is the "titanium" coating since most coatings seem to contain titanium and why is it so much more expensive than red speed?

At the end of the day, I'll pick up the Mythos burrs, if I buy one of these and I'm not going to think much beyond that.

Shife

#78: Post by Shife »

aut0maticdan wrote:
All this has been fun but ultimately leads back to my original set of question of what is the difference? Is it just coating or is there something different about the burr design?
You need to separate burr geometry from surface treatments. It is highly unlikely you will see any measurable difference between two sets of the same geometry with different (TiN/Red Speed) surface treatments. These surface treatments were developed for the machine tool industry (my last career) and provide beneficial surface hardness and lubricity. They are also used as cosmetic coatings. In the coffee world, we likely see some benefit from increased lubricity. A cafe will see the benefit of increased wear resistance - most home users will not. There is a TON of unsubstantiated internet gossip surrounding the effect of these coatings on grinder burrs and very little substantive data. To add to the confusion, people try to compare "Red Speed" SSP burrs to stock burr sets, when the SSP burrs have their own unique geometry. The largest difference is going to be in the geometry, not the gas nitrided surface treatment.

And to top it all off, alignment is king. The best burrs on the planet will chuck out garbage if not well aligned. Diameter increases speed and reduces heat; alignment increases particle uniformity. It's not magic, it's math.

billgiannelli

#79: Post by billgiannelli replying to Shife »

Hello,
I see you have the Atom 75. I am looking to buy that grinder. how do you make sure the burrs are aligned correctly. I see nothing in the manual online.
thanks
Bill

sprolever

#80: Post by sprolever »

aut0maticdan wrote:Interesting. I've never seen the defaults referred to as "diamond inside" and the default burrs generally go by a different part number.

https://www.1st-line.com/technical-supp ... s-diagram/

towards the bottom:

MAC74 CP - ATOM FLAT BURR SET 75MM
MAC75ITA-R-SPEED CP - ATOM FLAT BURR SET 75MM RED SPEED
MACMYTHOSLOW CP - ATOM FLAT BURR SET 75MM TITANIO
Because the link I've provided is from the "diamond inside" burrs and not the defaut?! :mrgreen: Sorry can't make it any more explicit than that.