EK43 alignment and SSP burrs review - Updated - Page 7

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
Vashal

Postby Vashal » Jul 16, 2019, 2:22 pm

I borrowed a set of kruve sifters from a friend to find out how many fines my ''high uniformity'' burrs produce.
I grinded at 0.6 of the dial knob and got out 10.0 gr of coffee .Out of that 10 gramms, I got 0.2 gr or less of particles smaller than 200μm (2% fines?) .I got more than 6.0 gr above 400μm and something about 3.5+ gr between 200 and 400μm .
Anyone with experience with kruve?Does this sound like a small percentage of fines or even other grinders produce similar percentage?

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Denis

Postby Denis » Jul 16, 2019, 2:42 pm

Fines are sticking to bigger particles, so the real number is higher, but still good numbers.

I find the grind size at 0.6 on dial to be really coarse. Ideal espresso range is between 200-400 microns with a peak at 300 microns. You have a lot over 400 microns, this means it's a coarse grind. Something is not right with the grinder, and I don't know if it's the burr type/geometry as I had burrs that would not grind fine enough for espresso in aligned grinder or there is something wrong with calibration.

Do you touch burrs are 0? Open grinder, clean it with a brush and vacuum cleaner, then reassemble it tight the 2 screws equally and see if you hear touching burrs are 0. I assume your dial knob slipped (well known problem) and the zero point is gone, so after redoing zero the right way you might grind at 1.5+ not 0.6 for that grind size.

Well known problem of Ek43 of slipping knob loosing calibration (from grinding+ vibrations). The calibration is done only with the grinder clean inside the burr chamber, do not attempt to do it w/o cleaning. And center the shear plate with the grinder tilted on the back.

Vashal

Postby Vashal » Jul 16, 2019, 3:06 pm

With this particular coffee I tested and with this dial selection I would get 1:2 @ 30'' ,it is not a ''coarse'' grind.
My dial knob does not slip ,since I recently calibrated it after cleaning and currently my burrs touch at 0 . However when they touch although they are perfectly aligned they do not sound so ,according to the video of Barista Hustle.They sound like the ''poor alignment'' .



I don't know if I should take the sound test into serious consideration or not.

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Terranova
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Postby Terranova » Jul 16, 2019, 3:56 pm

Vashal wrote:
I don't know if I should take the sound test into serious consideration or not.


Don't do it, it is nonsense.
Some people are not aware how big is the damage when you spread a „myth".

Rytopa

Postby Rytopa » Jul 16, 2019, 10:21 pm

Vashal wrote:I borrowed a set of kruve sifters from a friend to find out how many fines my ''high uniformity'' burrs produce.
I grinded at 0.6 of the dial knob and got out 10.0 gr of coffee .Out of that 10 gramms, I got 0.2 gr or less of particles smaller than 200μm (2% fines?) .I got more than 6.0 gr above 400μm and something about 3.5+ gr between 200 and 400μm .
Anyone with experience with kruve?Does this sound like a small percentage of fines or even other grinders produce similar percentage?


Something seems amiss, pulling my previous data, i am getting around Fines: 1.5g , 200 um 6.7 g, 400 um 2.2g, for 10.4g espresso shot for a more traditional 1:2 30 sec. I cannot remember the exact EK grind setting, but its around 2-3 on the EK43S dial

namelessone

Postby namelessone » Jul 20, 2019, 1:11 pm

Terranova wrote:Don't do it, it is nonsense.
Some people are not aware how big is the damage when you spread a „myth".


Just like all the other BS spread by Matt/Barista Hustle then - water not penetrating under 100um, there is no such thing as overextraction etc and so on.

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Denis

Postby Denis » Jul 20, 2019, 1:35 pm

Overextraction related to extraction yield. Not related to fines being overextracted. So a to high Ey doesn't exist yet with the present extraction tools.

Sour and salty is a clear sign of underextraction, low ey. It has nothing to do with extracting to much out of fines and less from boulders. And I agree there is no such thing as overextracted, bitter comes from a defect in the grinding process, not from the extraction.

franklin270h

Postby franklin270h » Aug 07, 2019, 1:05 am

A little late to the thread but from using a few different ones, I can share some experiences.

It's hard to compare by dial settings on the EK especially on a person by person basis. This not just because of the different dials but also because the type of carrier (prebreaker) makes a difference. The finer threaded augers, such as Turkish and Titus' new CNC'd carrier, have more granularity in adjustment due to the slower feed rate and the fact they're busting the coffee into smaller particles before they reach the burrs. My EK43S had the Turkish auger stock. Looking at Mahlkonig's parts list for the grinders, there is a different part number for the carrier between 60hz models and 50hz models. I can't say with complete certainty, but observationally I think MK is putting the Turkish auger stock in 60hz models since they spin at higher RPM, and the coffee auger in the 50hz models. Of course older models with the steel carrier, Coffee burr equalled coffee carrier and turkish burrs equalled turkish carrier. Basically, if you had someone say in the U.S. or Canada with the old steel coffee auger on a 60hz grinder, they're going to be finer on the dial than basically every other version of the EK43 even with the exact same burrset.

SSP's website is confusing and despite making great burrs he needs a better nomenclature for them.

High Uniformity used to just be "SSP EK43 Burrs". They're a similar geometry to all his other multipurpose burrs such as the Ditting/Bunn/EG-1 burrs. 3 stage, plenty of prebreakers, flatter more shallow finishing section. These are the ones to get for espresso, and they're a good all-arounder in general.

Low uniformity: Haven't personally used, but a friend is testing them comparatively to the High Uniformity. He 100% prefers them for filter over high uniformity and says they give cleaner coffee and the ability for pushing extraction higher on average. When I was talking to Frank on IG and he sent a pic of the lows these were the ones he had pictured (not the ones with Ditting style teeth). Similar to an earlier comment on this thread, where a box with just "Low" on it. Kinda gets back to SSP needing better naming/classification. Can't really speak on their 'Spro ability but they seem to deliver on a more brew focused multipurpose burr.

The Ultra Lows (Ultra Low Fines, Low Fines, depending on what part of his site you're reading) are weird. They have Ditting style teeth, but unlike the Ditting 804 burrs and MK Tanzania burrs, the teeth are extremely shallow, as shallow as the teeth on the high uniformity burrs with a similar dial range as the high uniformity as well. They can EASILY do espresso. That said they have a somewhat broader particle spread (compared to other SSP and MK Cast burrs) and I can't really say they deliver on the premise of fewer fines at all. I think the Low Uniformity ones are the way to go for filter, those and just straight up stock MK cast burrs especially the old style coffee burrs.

Wild Card: I sent new style coffee burrs to SSP to do a regrind and geometry change to the old coffee burr geometry with the deeper finishing teeth/smaller flat section. He did a great job with them and they're doing a stellar job with filter and EKspresso. Just to throw out there that it's an option and a cheaper option than buying new burrs at that.

bpchia

Postby bpchia » replying to franklin270h » Aug 23, 2019, 9:36 am

Hey, this is great info, thank you...I have heard the Peak and Ditting Lab Sweet burrs (same burrs, 80mm) are fantastic for filter and espresso, wonder if Hansung can do a 98mm version of this...

So you essentially got the old MK coffee burrs that are stellar for filter? Great idea. Did you get them coated or is this only for machined burrs?

Are coatings only for longevity and don't change the grind quality?

Do you know anything about SSP cast burrs for EK43?

Thanks again

franklin270h

Postby franklin270h » replying to bpchia » Aug 23, 2019, 3:21 pm

Essentially yes. I had a spare set of the new style coffee burrs (the recent geometry) and sent it to him to regrind/change the geometry to the old style. I also had them silver Knight coated. He can also convert coffee burrs to Turkish and vice versa. Keep in mind and of those geometry changes are a regrind, so your burrs will be a little bit thinner than stock of course.

The coatings are mostly for longevity. They advertise a difference in coefficient of friction between different coatings, but either way ive seen no particular evidence that it makes a big difference in the grind quality, it just adds durability.

No idea about the cast burrs aside from I heard that he essentially made them to be more reliable/uniform for espresso comparative, basically an espresso geared all arounder similar to high uniformity.

I do feel that with basically any grinder that isn't an EG-1 or Monolith that has a specific focus on it, alignment makes as big if not a bigger difference than do the fairly minor differences in geometry between most of the burr options. The EK is notorious because of the ubiquity of them but this is a problem with Bunn, Ditting, other MK, Mazzer, etc. I'd 100% encourage anyone to focus on that first before throwing a bunch of money at burrs, and if they decide to get burrs later then they'll still benefit from that effort. For filter use, aligned vs aligned, I was honestly happier with the MK new style burrs vs the SSP ultra lows. With the MK burrs reground to the older filter oriented geometry I'm MUCH happier with them vs the Ultra Lows.