EK43 alignment and SSP burrs review - Updated - Page 4

Grinders are one of the keys to exceptional espresso. Discuss them here.
bpchia

Postby bpchia » Jul 14, 2019, 2:39 am

mbenedet wrote:Correct, prior to my burr and carrier change, I had the Mahlkonig stock burrs from....2013? Can't remember exactly when I bought this EK. I used the marker test to align the burrs, but really how close can you get with that?...Total guess, they've had maybe 1000 lbs go through them.

I spoke a lot with Hansung from SSP and it's all so, so confusing. Here's my current understanding:

"Low uniformity" is simply a shorter primary peak on the ground distribution chart compared to the "high uniformity". Hansung says it's better for drip in that it adds more complexity than the "high uniformity". He said the "high uniformity" burrs excelled for single origin espresso, but since I'm mostly brewing and cupping and only occasionally brewing espresso, he recommended the "low uniformity" burrs. My sense is that the "uniformity" burrs both have less fines and outperform the stock and SSP cast burrs. According to SSP, their cast burr is similar but improved geometry compared to MK stock burrs. And cheaper. Also according to the very confusing website, the "low fines" burrs have more fines than both of the "uniformity" burrs. The "low uniformity" and "low fines" have the same primary distribution peak but the "low fines" makes more fines, hah!

Strangely, the "ultra low" aka "low fines" burr (depending where you look) has more fines than both of the "uniformity" burrs, which to me sounds more like it's "low fines" compared to stock or cast burrs, but not "low fines" as in "the lowest fines burr SSP makes". Hope all my quote signs are helpful :)


I've also emailed back and forth with Hansung but can't get a clear answer on what the particle distributions look like. The fact Frank has gone for the "low fines" with his filter grinder (Nautilus) seems to indicate it would be the best burr for filter, but not sure what this is based on.

For me, the best filter burrs for my coffee and brew method would be highest uniformity and lowest fines. Can anyone categorically say which SSP burr this is??

Would also like it to do good Turkish grind for vacuum assisted filter brewing. I've got amazing results on this and it seems to be in line with Barista Hustle's pilot experiment where they concluded any particle less than 200um may have a completely zero extraction portion in the centre...so if you can grind with a peak less than 200um and cut off the extraction at the optimal point before bitterness and astringency, this could be the "best" brew...you need a vacuum to filter the coffee at this particle size...

mbenedet

Postby mbenedet » Jul 14, 2019, 3:09 am

From what I've read on the SSP site and from our emails, highest peak and least fines is the defining feature of the "high uniformity" burr. I'm trying to divest my ideas about grind size and brewing method so I can relearn some results, but you say you want high peak/low fines for drip and Hansung said that the high uniformity burr is for single dosed, light roasted SOE; the low uniformity is better for drip, with extra complexity vs high uniformity; and that low fines is for bulk grinding, but that espresso is difficult with it.

Confusing matters more: My burr (low uniformity) came in an unlabeled box. A friend of mine thought he had the low fines burr because his box was labeled "LOW" but turns out he has low uniformity too. I'm not really sure anyone has any idea what burr they have lol

I wish I had all 3 burrs operating simultaneously, that's for sure

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Denis

Postby Denis » Jul 14, 2019, 4:46 am

The amount of fines is directly related to Burr geometry and RPM. Nautilus will be faster than 1400rpm (ek43). So maybe what works in Nautilus at top rpm will not be as good inside ek43. They put the ek43 burrs inside the Mono Flat Max and it didn't behave good, that's why they reworked the geometry to make it work at lower rpm (400rpm). If the geometry is to aggressive, and the rpm is too low, then the lower the rpm the more torque it needs. You can make a grinder stuck with aggressive burr+ low rpm and a weak torque engine.

To increase extraction do this, if you have a De1 even better:

Get whatever basket you like, I prefer higher dose cause of aggressive profile, I like 20g in ims or vst basket. Do WDT.

Aim for 1:3+ ratio in 27-35 sec, the faster you can make it flow in the cup the better.

Preinfusion will only be 5-7 sec and the rest of the time will be the 1:3 + ratio. Eg: 20g in- 60g out in 30 sec. With a 7 sec PI then we have 23 sec to pull 60 g of coffee = 2.6 g/sec.

Typical shot is 18g in =36g out in 30 sec= 1.56g/sec but don't do this.

The EY will be higher and the coffee will taste better. The best profile w/o messing the puck integrity is to saturate as fast as possible the puck with water (6g/sec+ free flow) then make a tiny break just before you ramp up to 8-9bar (this break is like 2 sec), then just peak at 9 bar for 1 sec and drop to 3-4 bar just like a spring level.

Grinding fine and using low flow drops my EY by a lot. But with the fast pulls and high ratios I can get with good coffee 25+ EY. No paper filters, no bloom.

My shots look like this:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzLQVAeojrs ... _copy_link


I pulled today 200g of coffee using VST+ IMS in 18-20-22 g doses, and alternating the time and the ratio (from 1-2 to 1-4) and with perfect puck preparation specially WDT I got the same value +- 0.2 % EY.

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Terranova
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Postby Terranova » Jul 14, 2019, 6:33 am

mbenedet wrote:I wish I had all 3 burrs operating simultaneously, that's for sure


We are using the "low fines" and "high uniformity" simultaneously inside an EKK43.
On the "low fines" side I can grind so fine that the fines get through the VST basket inside the cup when nearly chocking the Slayer.
I also don't have objective data, SSP is using sieves which isn't that convincing imho.

Image

bpchia

Postby bpchia » replying to Terranova » Jul 14, 2019, 9:06 am

Wow...does "high uniformity" have less fines than "low fines"?

Have you put "high uniformity" in the Nautilus?

Thanks.

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Terranova
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Postby Terranova » Jul 14, 2019, 9:22 am

bpchia wrote:Wow...does "high uniformity" have less fines than "low fines"?


I don't know.

bpchia wrote:Have you put "high uniformity" in the Nautilus?



The Vendor participation in the forums guidelines allow for correcting factual errors, lets not cross that line.

mbenedet

Postby mbenedet » Jul 14, 2019, 12:37 pm

Terranova wrote:We are using the "low fines" and "high uniformity" simultaneously inside an EKK43.
On the "low fines" side I can grind so fine that the fines get through the VST basket inside the cup when nearly chocking the Slayer.
I also don't have objective data, SSP is using sieves which isn't that convincing imho.

<image>


Maybe I'll try using that ad astra app as well to analyze my distribution. Troubling to hear SSP is only using sieves, especially after I just spent $550 for burrs I'll have for years to come!

With my "low uniformity" burrs on grind setting 1.5, I'm getting grounds in the beverage as well.

mbenedet

Postby mbenedet » Jul 14, 2019, 12:38 pm

bpchia wrote:Wow...does "high uniformity" have less fines than "low fines"?


According to all the information on the SSP site, yes.

namelessone

Postby namelessone » Jul 14, 2019, 5:28 pm

There's nothing wrong with using sieves for particle analysis, as long as it's done correctly. Is their data published anywhere?

bpchia

Postby bpchia » Yesterday, 1:42 am